Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[NyneSwordz]

I am going drop this here, if NF can be used with and without a target, most of time ( always )the WAR will use it on himself and not the party member.

Clemency is on gcd, intervention does not benefit Pld self.

HOS has better effect used correctly on party member.

If NF can be self targeted, it has to have a downside. Longer cd maybe?

1) how do you know the warrior will always use it on himself and not the party?

He doesnt lose anything by using it on a party member and overal benefit is greater if on party member.

If the war is using a macro its as simple as adding anotber line of code. So how do you even assume this?

2) its not a buff on the action for a warrior to use it on himself so why does there need to be a nerf to its cd?

3) a nerf to cooldown doesnt do anything to address ur original pt which was that wars would use it selfishly if possible. So what is even the pt of this suggestion?

4) clemency is on gcd so what? What is ur point? Its a straight self heal. Nf requires the war to damage something to heal and its on a tight/short window. Why would such a skill ever be on gcd? Again, no odea what ur pt is here.

I was mistaken about intervention, but maybe someone should verify it for pvp.

[Talam]

I am going drop this here, if NF can be used with and without a target, most of time ( always )the WAR will use it on himself and not the party member.

I feel like this is an idea that needs to be addressed, because this sounds more like personal projection rather than anything else.

As a warrior main, I'm not a fucking idiot. If NF became something that could be used without a target, the only I'll be using it on myself is when I need the healing. If I am the OT, I'm more often than not going to NF the MT because the MT is the one taking most of the damage. The only time in that scenario I'd NF myself is if I'm low, the MT is fine, and I don't want to waste healer oGCDs bringing my health up. And if I'm MT, then yea, I'm going to NF myself, because it means healers can save their oGCDs for later.

This is, in fact, how I pretty much use it right now. The only difference is that when I'm MT and using NF, some random party member is being healed, despite not needing the healing whatsoever the majority of the time. All I want, in the scenario that I am alone because either I'm running solo or everyone else in the party is dead, is to be able to put it on myself.

[whiskeybravo]

Pretty much. The main argument stems from it being clunky to use. Take away the clunkiness and most players aren't going to go out of their way to make it clunky again, they're just gonna use it for self healing and move on.

IMO the solution to this "identity" problem is have the self heal baked in to IB/FC/IC/SC/Dec/CC. I'm not sure where potency would have to be balance wise, but something like 100 potency for cleaves and 50 potency for the AoE abilities. Turn NF into a support ability only that acts more like a regen on the target, say 100 potency per each GCD the WAR executes under the effect so it's equally effective regardless of whether it falls in a burst window or not. Something like that anyways.

[Kabooa]

Pretty much. The main argument stems from it being clunky to use. Take away the clunkiness and most players aren't going to go out of their way to make it clunky again, they're just gonna use it for self healing and move on.

To be honest, I actually find it really weak for the off target. It's half of what you get, and you get 50%. Without Infuriate or an IR window, you're talking maybe like 5-10% of your co-tanks HP. The 10% mitigation they get is also nothing to write home about.

It is technically most efficient when dealing with stacked busters, but NF is available far more times than those show up.

To be honest, I think Nascent Flash should be a trait. Your Beast Gauge actions heal you and the closest / Focus Targeted Ally for 50% of the damage dealt. On one hand, it's a button gone and the Warrior really does need all the buttons it can get, but on the other, it directly buffs the warrior's self healing capability, adds a little bit of thought to Infuriate use in terms of defensive play, and feels like a proper replacement and natural progression for the warrior's overall kit.

In my opinion at least.

[whiskeybravo]

To be honest, I actually find it really weak for the off target. It's half of what you get, and you get 50%. Without Infuriate or an IR window, you're talking maybe like 5-10% of your co-tanks HP. The 10% mitigation they get is also nothing to write home about.

Yea this is my main problem with NF. It's only "really strong" when it lines up with IR/Infuriate. All the rest is pretty pathetic. I'd use it more if its effect was more consistent, otherwise there's just not much reason (as it relates to OT/party support).

[Shurrikhan]

To be honest, I actually find it really weak for the off target. It's half of what you get, and you get 50%. Without Infuriate or an IR window, you're talking maybe like 5-10% of your co-tanks HP. The 10% mitigation they get is also nothing to write home about.

It is technically most efficient when dealing with stacked busters, but NF is available far more times than those show up.

To be honest, I think Nascent Flash should be a trait. Your Beast Gauge actions heal you and the closest / Focus Targeted Ally for 50% of the damage dealt. On one hand, it's a button gone and the Warrior really does need all the buttons it can get, but on the other, it directly buffs the warrior's self healing capability, adds a little bit of thought to Infuriate use in terms of defensive play, and feels like a proper replacement and natural progression for the warrior's overall kit.

In my opinion at least.

I'd kind of rather just rework it into a new take on Bloodbath itself and then add a new mechanic for splitting/spreading your own buffs (via "Warcry" or whatever). But in either case, I'd love to see Warrior get back more of its self-healing front-and-center.

[NyneSwordz]

Pretty much. The main argument stems from it being clunky to use. Take away the clunkiness and most players aren't going to go out of their way to make it clunky again, they're just gonna use it for self healing and move on.

IMO the solution to this "identity" problem is have the self heal baked in to IB/FC/IC/SC/Dec/CC. I'm not sure where potency would have to be balance wise, but something like 100 potency for cleaves and 50 potency for the AoE abilities. Turn NF into a support ability only that acts more like a regen on the target, say 100 potency per each GCD the WAR executes under the effect so it's equally effective regardless of whether it falls in a burst window or not. Something like that anyways.

Im perfectly fine with this.

Or they could just reduce ic/cc pot to equal fc/dec and then add healing to ic/cc. Maybe buff combo damage to compensate or buff fc slightly.

That way ic/cc could get back the identity which was stripped from ib/sc, and fc remains our biggest pot attack and gets back its identity.

I never liked our strongest attack being not useablr in ir anyway.

If they do that, im perfectly fine with nf just being a party buff action.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Nascent Flash isn't a problem to be solved.

[Ultimatecalibur]

To be honest, I actually find it really weak for the off target. It's half of what you get, and you get 50%. Without Infuriate or an IR window, you're talking maybe like 5-10% of your co-tanks HP. The 10% mitigation they get is also nothing to write home about.

Part of the problem is that Intervention, Cover, HoS, Nascent Flash, and TBN are not meant for protecting the other Tank. They are intended to be used by the MT/OT to protect Healers and DpS. 10% is nothing to a Tank when they already take 75% of the damage any other role would take from an attack, but is significant for Healer and DpS who have little natural mitigation.

[SiriusSaltstice]

Part of the problem is that Intervention, Cover, HoS, Nascent Flash, and TBN are not meant for protecting the other Tank. They are intended to be used by the MT/OT to protect Healers and DpS. 10% is nothing to a Tank when they already take 75% of the damage any other role would take from an attack, but is significant for Healer and DpS who have little natural mitigation.

Your logic is very incorrect.

HoS, Intervention, TBN and NF are only really useful for the other tank because they are constantly subject to damage and especially high amounts of damage in the case of a tankbuster. Yes, there are cases where you can use these on a non-tank and it will help ( Covering preys, TBN a DoT's damage, etc.), but they only really help out a cotank as it allows mitigation sharing and support. Tanks have better ways of shielding the party ( PoA, Reprisal, D.Missionary, SiO, HoL, DV).

Just because Tanks have high natural defense and mitigation is no reason for you to help out your cotank ( again, by your logic I should eat tankbusters naked with no defense CDs because " my fending armor gives me high enough mitigation who cares"). By helping the cotank, you in turn help the healers by reducing incoming tank damage strain. Does this mean you can't use it on other ppl? No. But these buttons aren't purely designed to shield DPS or healer, they're mainly meant to help out the cotank. You can share mitigation with intervention, give a fat shield with TBN, give small mitigation and shielding with HoS, and small mitigation and some healing with NF. And it benefits the tank since they're taking autos and can help with mitigating tankbusters.