At 95th percentile in 5.1, BRD's total contribution is the lowest of all DPS

[Rika007]

My frustration is not with being the lowest DPS. I didn't sign up to play Bard for the big numbers. My frustration is what led to this point in making Bard the lowest DPS. Bard was already in trouble before the song buffs were added back, barely beating out Red Mage or Dancer in most fights. My anger comes from the fact that my jobs identity got destroyed for the sake of 'balance' and yet 5.0 and 5.1's balance has been far worse then the balance of 4.5. The identity that I played the job for, being a hybrid support/dps got absolutely ripped to shreds, with iconic abilties I've had since day one like Foe's Requiem and Refresh (original Mage's Ballad) got absolutely deleted with little but a couple upped potencies to make up for it, all while the identity I loved was given to the new guy on the block in Dancer. If I still had things like Foe's, like Refresh, like palisade, and got more impact and uses out of things like Minne and Paen, I wouldn't care about the lower placement on this list. Because numbers can always be adjusted, but job playstyle and identity are MUCH harder to fix, especially when dev's disagree with players on what a job should look and play like (See Monk players frustrations since 3.0).

The only other frustration I have is the amount of imbalance. Like I said I don't care being the lowest. But I do care that if I play my job to absolute perfection in the most difficult fights this game has to offer, that another job being played that can do the same exact mechanics as me could be played "average" or "mediocre" and do just as much if not more damage then me. The devs said in the live letter leading up to 5.0 that player skill will always trump job choice. But for Bards and Dancers especially right now and to a lesser extent Machnisits, this is simply not true.

[Rasikko]

Meanwhile the pot smoking SMNs are complaining about doing too much damage.

[EtherRose]

Well first off, a ranged class that can use skills while moving constantly will not have high DPS overall. That would make the class OP. It's annoying when people think that all classes should have the same DPS. People be complaining like "Why can't BRD do as much damage as a BLM". Just play what ever class you like.

[Rika007]

Well first off, a ranged class that can use skills while moving constantly will not have high DPS overall. That would make the class OP. It's annoying when people think that all classes should have the same DPS. People be complaining like "Why can't BRD do as much damage as a BLM". Just play what ever class you like.

Good work completely missing the point.

[Dogempire]

Well first off, a ranged class that can use skills while moving constantly will not have high DPS overall. That would make the class OP. It's annoying when people think that all classes should have the same DPS. People be complaining like "Why can't BRD do as much damage as a BLM". Just play what ever class you like.

Points at summoner

[Rika007]

Points at summoner

I forgot the actual math but the balance guys worked up that a well played summoner right now approaching Firebird Trance can map out their cool downs and essentially go 50 seconds without hard casting a single spell. A little over 20 GCD's worth, and not a single second of it would be a potency loss. And let's be real, no savage mechanic would require that level of movement, heck no savage mechanic at all requires a Bard to spend the majority of it's time away from the party and running around for anything longer then two or three GCD's at the absolute MAX.

[Dogempire]

I forgot the actual math but the balance guys worked up that a well played summoner right now approaching Firebird Trance can map out their cool downs and essentially go 50 seconds without hard casting a single spell. A little over 20 GCD's worth, and not a single second of it would be a potency loss. And let's be real, no savage mechanic would require that level of movement, heck no savage mechanic at all requires a Bard to spend the majority of it's time away from the party and running around for anything longer then two or three GCD's at the absolute MAX.

Honestly, even if you have to move you're only losing 40 potency per gcd. Not really much of a penalty even if it does raise the skill ceiling.

[ForteNightshade]

Well it's kind of interesting because SE said they didn't give BRD stronger raid buffs as if they did, they'd have to reduce their DPS considerably.

It looks like this "considerable reduction" happened anyways, but BRD didn't really get much for it.

As for which job should be last, well, I think the whole band could afford to be narrowed a bit. Summoner is too high, bard is too low.

Beyond that, it is usually utility vs DPS, ie mages with rez and mobility should be lower than mages without. This was the justification for Dancer being so low on the list too. But now bard is in that position, yet also offers (much) less utility than dancer and less DPS than machinist.

From Yoshida:

[Bard]

The synergy the bards can provide with their songs are "so so".

The players' opinion on bards having party synergy or not is divided, but Yoshida personally thinks the 5.1 bard landed on a balanced spot.

If players want even more synergy for bard like in the 4.x series, they would have to nerf bard's personal damage to a dancer's level.

The irony...

At this point, I'm convinced what the dev team does and what they tell is not the same thing because this routinely happens. They make themselves look... well, shortsighted to... be a little less blunt?

Bard use to be the GotO ranged DPS for quite some time. It will survive at the bottom for a bit and get back up. Don't worry.

Uh... no, it did not. The last time Bard was on the bottom was back in Heavensward when they overbuffed Machinist. Bards were outright excluded from parties for being straight up inferior. This flip flopped between the two until both were tuned so much, they eliminated the Casters entirely. The existence of the party bonus is strictly because the devs couldn't figure out how to prevent the Range, and subsequently Casters roles, from cannibalizing each other. Astro is another example, where it remained dead last throughout all of Heavensward until they gave it 10% AoE Balance—making it comically overpowered just to get people to play it. Look at Samurai in Stormblood. It was a walking meme, and stayed one due to the sheer dominance of Dragoon and Ninja.

If anything, XIV has a history of not fixing these problems in a timely fashion.

[Nemekh]

I forgot the actual math but the balance guys worked up that a well played summoner right now approaching Firebird Trance can map out their cool downs and essentially go 50 seconds without hard casting a single spell. A little over 20 GCD's worth, and not a single second of it would be a potency loss. And let's be real, no savage mechanic would require that level of movement, heck no savage mechanic at all requires a Bard to spend the majority of it's time away from the party and running around for anything longer then two or three GCD's at the absolute MAX.

That's not something we've said at all, and if you're burning your Ruin IVs out of Bahamut then that's a potency loss per Ruin II you're having to use instead. Please don't put words in our mouths with hyperbolae.

Yes, the mobility is far higher now, but the only truly free mobility actions are egi assaults, 2-4 dwt gcds, FBT GCDs that aren't before Enkindles and 1-3 R4s, all per 2 minute cycle. Those are not all strung together in one continuous sequence, nor is going yolo with instants potency free.

[Rika007]

That's not something we've said at all, and if you're burning your Ruin IVs out of Bahamut then that's a potency loss per Ruin II you're having to use instead. Please don't put words in our mouths with hyperbolae.

Yes, the mobility is far higher now, but the only truly free mobility actions are egi assaults, 2-4 dwt gcds, FBT GCDs that aren't before Enkindles and 1-3 R4s, all per 2 minute cycle. Those are not all strung together in one continuous sequence, nor is going yolo with instants potency free.

This wasn't in the Summoner section and I never said it was. Was just some guys discussing it in a channel and I just assumed they were theory crafting how long a summoner could do prolonged movement, not that it will be in anyway an ACTUAL rotational thing or that it would be in anyway something that is the way to play Summoner, which my post also in no way implied at all. I play summoner quite avidly as well. This was just something I remembered seeing that was relevant to the point that jobs the ranged DPS are falling behind to do not have the same sort of disadvantages we attribute to. Don't be so defensive please.