AST Minor Arcana need to be changed back!

[Billythepancake]

These aren't heals or attacks; they are card draws and plays. They don't cause any safety-critical concerns like healing macros might, or significant DPS loss concerns like attack macros.


The mechanic doesn't rely on macros. You can hard target people and press five different buttons to do all the things if that's what you want to do.

As targeted party buffs, there isn't really anything they can do to make using cards any less involved. The only way it could be made to require no target swapping at all would be to make all cards AoE, which is bad for obvious reasons. Minimizing target swapping would require something like a second Synastry or Dance Partner mechanic, which wouldn't work for multicard moments e.g., Play-Draw-Play or Sleeve Draw-Play-Play-Play.

Which is why I argue this card system is flawed. The old card system didn't have this problem because you spent most of your cards on AoE, and when you did single target a card, it wasn't very often as opposed to doing it on the opener on here for 3 cards, and doing that every time sleeve draw is up. God help you if you need to do literally anything else during that sleeve draw window too. The fact that this card system is near unplayable without macros, especially on controller, makes it a failure, despite whatever dps benefits it gives, and that, imo, is why AST has tanked in people who are willing to play it. Through all of SB, while WHM was considered useless, it was never as unpopular as AST is right now, because it wasn't complete ass to play, or require macros.

[Shurrikhan]

Which is why I argue this card system is flawed. The old card system didn't have this problem because you spent most of your cards on AoE, and when you did single target a card, it wasn't very often as opposed to doing it on the opener on here for 3 cards, and doing that every time sleeve draw is up. God help you if you need to do literally anything else during that sleeve draw window too. The fact that this card system is near unplayable without macros, especially on controller, makes it a failure, despite whatever dps benefits it gives, and that, imo, is why AST has tanked in people who are willing to play it. Through all of SB, while WHM was considered useless, it was never as unpopular as AST is right now, because it wasn't complete ass to play, or require macros.

If the saving grace of the old system was that you only really had one choice (Expand and, only a bit less obligatory, Balance)... is that not at least as flawed a system?

Take any way of balancing the old system so it wasn't just Expanded-Balance/Arrow/Spear or bust and you have the same exact problem.

And spare the discussion this "especially on controller" misrepresentation. M&KB is scarcely if at all affected. It is quite purely a controller problem.

It is not, however, a controller problem unique to AST cards. Literally any other need to rapidly target an ally other than your target or target, single focus target, or an ally immediately above or below your last on the party list runs into this same issue on controllers. When my healers in a 24-man raid have both gotten themselves killed by standing in a one-shot mechanic and suddenly my party members and I are getting chain-oGCD-healed (tetra-bene-[gap]-Asylum in rapid fire, each onto the appropriate targets) to keep us over HP margins, I can be almost absolutely certain that supporting alliance healer is using a mouse and keyboard.

XIV controller support is not good, let alone on par with M&KB. It's just been marginally acceptable because so much of healing has been purposely held back into predictable intervals on predictable targets in order to keep controller-users from noticing its otherwise glaring issues. And given how much could be done to improve controller usage, our attention should be on that, rather than just maintaining, be it by fight design or job mechanics, low demands of our controls as to obfuscate the difference.

[Billythepancake]

If the saving grace of the old system was that you only really had one choice (Expand and, only a bit less obligatory, Balance)... is that not at least as flawed a system?

Take any way of balancing the old system so it wasn't just Expanded-Balance/Arrow/Spear or bust and you have the same exact problem.

And spare the discussion this "especially on controller" misrepresentation. M&KB is scarcely if at all affected. It is quite purely a controller problem.

It is not, however, a controller problem unique to AST cards. Literally any other need to rapidly target an ally other than your target or target, single focus target, or an ally immediately above or below your last on the party list runs into this same issue on controllers. When my healers in a 24-man raid have both gotten themselves killed by standing in a one-shot mechanic and suddenly my party members and I are getting chain-oGCD-healed (tetra-bene-[gap]-Asylum in rapid fire, each onto the appropriate targets) to keep us over HP margins, I can be almost absolutely certain that supporting alliance healer is using a mouse and keyboard.

XIV controller support is not good, let alone on par with M&KB. It's just been marginally acceptable because so much of healing has been purposely held back into predictable intervals on predictable targets in order to keep controller-users from noticing its otherwise glaring issues. And given how much could be done to improve controller usage, our attention should be on that, rather than just maintaining, be it by fight design or job mechanics, low demands of our controls as to obfuscate the difference.

Even if you chose to single card in the old system it was not as cumbersome as this one. There 2 biggest offenders are sleeve draw and the seals. In the old system if you chose to single target, it was only once every thirty seconds, and you had time to figure out who to give it to. Because of the seal system, and because of sleeve draw, if you want to get divination out on time you have to constantly swap targets. Even on keyboard and mouse I hate it because it almost feels like mouse over is required and macros in this game are awful.

[LariaKirin]

Even if you chose to single card in the old system it was not as cumbersome as this one. There 2 biggest offenders are sleeve draw and the seals. In the old system if you chose to single target, it was only once every thirty seconds, and you had time to figure out who to give it to. Because of the seal system, and because of sleeve draw, if you want to get divination out on time you have to constantly swap targets. Even on keyboard and mouse I hate it because it almost feels like mouse over is required and macros in this game are awful.

No, you did not have time to figure out who to give it to. Every second you spent with a card in hand was a second delaying your next draw.

[Billythepancake]

No, you did not have time to figure out who to give it to. Every second you spent with a card in hand was a second delaying your next draw.

Poorly worded. Forgive me, but you did have a mechanic literally meant to hold cards. Sure, I'll give the new system this, that as soon as you draw it goes on CD, that is nice, but the old system,say you had balance but you wanted to enhance, put it to the side, or you felt you would need whatever card later, or you just needed a second to figure who to give what, put it to the side. Sure you can do that with this system, but if you do it during opener or some other inopportune time, you risk delaying divination.

[LariaKirin]

Poorly worded. Forgive me, but you did have a mechanic literally meant to hold cards. Sure, I'll give the new system this, that as soon as you draw it goes on CD, that is nice, but the old system,say you had balance but you wanted to enhance, put it to the side, or you felt you would need whatever card later, or you just needed a second to figure who to give what, put it to the side. Sure you can do that with this system, but if you do it during opener or some other inopportune time, you risk delaying divination.

Yes, but that method of holding the card meant that your only option was to play it (and use your Royal Road).

But to be fair, this is mostly because we're talking in the context of how it was back then vs how it is now. Button bloat was the only reason you couldn't have Draw/Play on separate buttons back then and eliminate the problem of having to use the card immediately.

Similarly, you now have to use the cards immediately because of one button: Sleeve Draw.

However, my opinion is that this is predominantly a controller problem and I agree with Shurrikhan on this. As a bonus, improving controller support to solve this problem is not only QoL for this specific problem, but across the board.

[Wayfinder3]

Yes, but that method of holding the card meant that your only option was to play it (and use your Royal Road).

But to be fair, this is mostly because we're talking in the context of how it was back then vs how it is now. Button bloat was the only reason you couldn't have Draw/Play on separate buttons back then and eliminate the problem of having to use the card immediately.

Similarly, you now have to use the cards immediately because of one button: Sleeve Draw.

However, my opinion is that this is predominantly a controller problem and I agree with Shurrikhan on this. As a bonus, improving controller support to solve this problem is not only QoL for this specific problem, but across the board.

Alright, but how do you do it. How do you improve the controller problem specifically that comes from needing to target. do controllers get a pass on targeting party members, or does the controller automatically just knows your target and applies the card. im generally curious why your solution is rocket science when the issue is to simply reduce the amount targeting abilities the stems from the card system. Personally, idm how the old system worked but if SE does, then create a system where the cards provide defense buffs to get seals, then use the seals for Divination. return Minor Arcana to lord of crowns 300 potency and be done with it.

Bole/Balance Reduce damage take by 5%
Ewer/Sprie Restore MP
Arrow/Spear Increase effectiveness Healing abilities. get all 3 and you get Divination.
then use cards you don't need for Lord of crowns (remove Lady)

it's simplistic but considering the dps rotation is literally spamming a nuke and a dot, they can add complexity there while keeping functionality, and not falling back on balance > all