Can we please put Coils of Bahamut in normal raid roulette?

[Vidu]

So just to be clear:

The argument against adding it to roulettes is that it's too hard?

OK.

The argument against adding it to this roulette, yes. At least part of the Coils is more difficult than the NMs - to a level that you'd simple see people drop out of the instance once they see Nael.

Personally I wouldnt mind added roulettes that include the more difficult content, like Ex-primals or Savage duties, but they dont mix well with easier content - just look at the mentor roulette and people who drop out of it when they get an Ex-primal instead of an easy dungeon or guildhest.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

So again:

The argument is it's too hard.

Why are any of the raids on roulettes? None of them are required to move the MSQ forward.

OK. Roulettes are there to fill queues for content that the developers feel is part of the standard experience.


Normal raids, alliance raids, level capped dungeons, leveling dungeons.

Savage is not in any roulette. It has a 10% or less clear rate on most servers. It also, outside of coil, has no extra story attached to it, as that was why normal mode was added. The same can be said for extreme trials.

You think it's content fit for a roulette?

Even if it was added, the rewards would need to be astronomical. No one wants to sit through 90 minutes of wiping with no rewards. It's not like alliance raids where you get loot along the way.

[MeanDragon]

OK. Roulettes are there to fill queues for content that the developers feel is part of the standard experience.


Normal raids, alliance raids, level capped dungeons, leveling dungeons.

Savage is not in any roulette. It has a 10% or less clear rate on most servers. It also, outside of coil, has no extra story attached to it, as that was why normal mode was added. The same can be said for extreme trials.

You think it's content fit for a roulette?

Yes I do.

Just make separate categories.

Have one for Extreme and one for Savage.

It doesn't have to be added to existing ones.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Yes I do.

Just make separate categories.

Have one for Extreme and one for Savage.

It doesn't have to be added to existing ones.

Why make roulettes that will have guaranteed 30+ minutes waiting time?

[HyoMinPark]

So again:

The argument is it's too hard.

Because they are. Half this playerbase doesn’t know what a stack marker means. I doubt most of DF could smoothly get through any of the Coils even with the +30% Echo with the exception of T3, perhaps—but T3 is nothing more than a very long jumping puzzle and people hated it when it was relevant. T5, T9, and T13 would likely be abandoned each time they popped. People could barely do T9 at level 60 after HW released: they messed up Meteors and Golems many times in the PFs I would join to do Coil.

These fights have mechanics present in them that you can’t just ignore or muscle through the same way you can ignore and muscle through most mechanics in dungeons or trials or other normal mode raids. A lot of mechanic failures in the Coils result in death and/or raid wipes. And each death you have actually penalizes you because you’re expected to beat an enrage in this content.

Why are any of the raids on roulettes? None of them are required to move the MSQ forward.

They’re normal mode, story raids—meaning they are significantly easier than their Savage counterparts and require far less skill to complete.

They began a Raid Roulette last expansion because a significant number of people were attempting to do old Alexander NMs and Deltascape NM (the latter to unlock the later Sigmascapes and Alphascape tiers so that they could participate in them for weekly drops), and the queues were abysmal. As in you were waiting for hours. I did Alexander on one of my alts prior to the Raid Roulette coming out, and it took me over an hour for each floor to even get the queue to pop.

But the difference between these normal modes and their Savage counterparts is that normal mode is half the difficulty of Savage—even less so in some cases. Savage is meant for players who have a high understanding of their jobs and role, who are able to execute complex mechanics that sometimes have multiple layers and nuance to them, and who can push out significant enough amounts of damage to beat an enrage timer. Just so that you’re aware, normal modes do not have enrages—so they technically don’t have a minimum damage requirement. Savage does.


Here’s the roughly difficult scaling in this game for you to see the jump Savage is from normal mode:

Dungeons > 8-man trials > 8-man normal mode raids / 24-man alliance raids > Extreme primals > Savage raids >>> Ultimate raids.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yes I do.

Just make separate categories.

Have one for Extreme and one for Savage.

It doesn't have to be added to existing ones.

OK. What are the rewards? Do you get anything if your group fails to clear after 90 minutes have elapsed?

Does it sync you to minimum ilvl for "the experience" with no echo, or do you go in at i130/270/400 with echo preapllied?

[MeanDragon]

How am I supposed to learn what the mechanics are if I don't experience them?

Why wouldn't the rewards be the same as all the roulettes? XP/Gil/Seals/Tomestones. It would have to be something consumable instead of a one off item.

Lol why is everyone so adamantly against this? If you don't want to do them then DON'T do them.

So strange...

[Dogempire]

How am I supposed to learn what the mechanics are if I don't experience them?

Why wouldn't the rewards be the same as all the roulettes? XP/Gil/Seals/Tomestones. It would have to be something consumable instead of a one off item.

Lol why is everyone so adamantly against this? If you don't want to do them then DON'T do them.

So strange...

If you want to do coils then you have to put up a PF group or find a group of people who want to do them.

[JowyAtreides]

How am I supposed to learn what the mechanics are if I don't experience them?

Why wouldn't the rewards be the same as all the roulettes? XP/Gil/Seals/Tomestones. It would have to be something consumable instead of a one off item.

Lol why is everyone so adamantly against this? If you don't want to do them then DON'T do them.

So strange...

For the same reason that people bail mentor roulette when an extreme primal drops.

It won't be cleared with a party of random players, especially if doing it for the first time.


If you look in the duty finder, under raids, you will see specifically see that coil fits under "Raids (A Realm Reborn)" whereas Alexander and and the 'Scapes are labelled as "Normal Raids (insert expansion here)"

It had been deliberately decided by Square Enix that the coils are not to be considered a "normal" raid, for reasons detailed within this thread.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

How am I supposed to learn what the mechanics are if I don't experience them?

Why wouldn't the rewards be the same as all the roulettes? XP/Gil/Seals/Tomestones. It would have to be something consumable instead of a one off item.

Lol why is everyone so adamantly against this? If you don't want to do them then DON'T do them.

So strange...

Because it's incredibly unlikely you will ever progress enough to clear the fights in a roulette with pugs.

These fights are some that took dedicated static groups weeks or months to clear. You get 90 minutes with randoms.

This being the case, unless rewards are simply amazing, the roulette will never pop, and you will be in the same place you are now