DF EX is faceroll, Eden Normal is Faceroll and then savage gates players

[Saranade]

I am not talking about going in 'blind' necessarily. The necessity of having to 'watch a video' just to play end game content brings unsatisfactory gameplay imo. Finding or joining a guild group where all 8 are okay with going in 'blind' isn't what im after either. The content should be progressive in a way that when you enter savage, you at least have a decent enough understanding of the mechanics that 'watching a video' should absolutely not be necessary.

[Lacan]

Just watch the video.

[HyoMinPark]

I am not talking about going in 'blind' necessarily. The necessity of having to 'watch a video' just to play end game content brings unsatisfactory gameplay imo. Finding or joining a guild group where all 8 are okay with going in 'blind' isn't what im after either. The content should be progressive in a way that when you enter savage, you at least have a decent enough understanding of the mechanics that 'watching a video' should absolutely not be necessary.

If you want the full, blind experience, you’re about 14 weeks too late for that. Best time to get that experience in Savage is to PF the content Day 1. After the first week or so, PFs tend to ask for experience and knowledge to make the experience easier for the entire party. Sometimes you can find a blind prog PF, but they are not as common as the ones that ask for you to have knowledge of the fight—which is not a bad thing to ask.

[Saranade]

If you want the full, blind experience, you’re about 14 weeks too late for that. Best time to get that experience in Savage is to PF the content Day 1. After the first week or so, PFs tend to ask for experience and knowledge to make the experience easier for the entire party. Sometimes you can find a blind prog PF, but they are not as common as the ones that ask for you to have knowledge of the fight—which is not a bad thing to ask.

I actually agree with you, and its actually what i am trying to point out as sort of a downfall of the game. Not everyone is jumping in savage day 1 (me for example). I very much enjoy difficult battles, but the 'go watch a video' or 'you need to know up to this phase' (even on day 2) is just not a good experience, period.

[HyoMinPark]

I actually agree with you, and its actually what i am trying to point out as sort of a downfall of the game. Not everyone is jumping in savage day 1 (me for example). I very much enjoy difficult battles, but the 'go watch a video' or 'you need to know up to this phase' (even on day 2) is just not a good experience, period.

Well, that’s the mentality that NA Party Finder tends to have; personally, I stop running stuff blind after Week 1 because I don’t want to burden a party by being unknowledgeable. If you really want to guarantee late progression that’s completely blind, people have already suggested to you ways to find that: join an FC that is all about blind progression, or seek out a static that wants to do blind progression. But you’ve said you don’t want to do that, so I really don’t know what to say.

[Saranade]

Well, that’s the mentality that NA Party Finder tends to have; personally, I stop running stuff blind after Week 1 because I don’t want to burden a party by being unknowledgeable. If you really want to guarantee late progression that’s completely blind, people have already suggested to you ways to find that: join an FC that is all about blind progression, or seek out a static that wants to do blind progression. But you’ve said you don’t want to do that, so I really don’t know what to say.

I think im just honestly looking for a happy medium, that doesn't involve nerfing or echo. As I have stated, Eden normal really is a complete face roll, yes I agree with the above post that everyone should be able to beat it. I am just trying to suggest adding a difficulty tier right below savage that would help players feel confident or prepared for it whether or not they have watched a video.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I think im just honestly looking for a happy medium, that doesn't involve nerfing or echo. As I have stated, Eden normal really is a complete face roll, yes I agree with the above post that everyone should be able to beat it. I am just trying to suggest adding a difficulty tier right below savage that would help players feel confident or prepared for it whether or not they have watched a video.

I don't know that that is possible, other than making that tier savage but "doesn't kill you and boss has less hp but with all of the same mechanics". Which, from a raiders standpoint, would make the fights kind of boring. You would see an even bigger decrease in time to kill, as world first groups would run through the easier mode, learn all the mechanics, then go kill savage.

Sure, those players learn mechanics quickly anyway, and it may not save that much time, but it would make savage less.... Well savage. The point isn't to know all of the mechanics before you do them.

You either A, have to know the mechanics ahead of time, which they'd have to show you in a lower tier, or B, still be stuck learning new mechanics cuz it's a harder fight.

[Nedkel]

I am not talking about going in 'blind' necessarily. The necessity of having to 'watch a video' just to play end game content brings unsatisfactory gameplay imo. Finding or joining a guild group where all 8 are okay with going in 'blind' isn't what im after either. The content should be progressive in a way that when you enter savage, you at least have a decent enough understanding of the mechanics that 'watching a video' should absolutely not be necessary.

There should be a hard mode where people could play savage difficulty but without enrage timer.

[HyoMinPark]

I think im just honestly looking for a happy medium, that doesn't involve nerfing or echo. As I have stated, Eden normal really is a complete face roll, yes I agree with the above post that everyone should be able to beat it. I am just trying to suggest adding a difficulty tier right below savage that would help players feel confident or prepared for it whether or not they have watched a video.

The difficulty tier below Savage is Extreme primals, not the normal mode. I already stated this.

Expert Roulette > Normal Mode Raids/24-man Raids > Extreme primals > Savage >>> Ultimate
That’s the difficulty tier in this game.

There should be a hard mode where people could play savage difficulty but without enrage timer.

As long as it offers no rewards. Though, I see very little reason why people can’t go and actually practice the fights WITH the enrage. If you can’t kill the baby version within the Savage version’s enrage timer, you won’t clear the Savage version.

[Saranade]

The difficulty tier below Savage is Extreme primals, not the normal mode. I already stated this.

Expert Roulette > Normal Mode Raids/24-man Raids > Extreme primals > Savage >>> Ultimate
That’s the difficulty tier in this game.

...You're completely missing the point though. Extreme primals while they are a fun and difficult do not progress you towards the mechanics involved in Savage.




I also agree no rewards should be given with this different difficulty tier.