crafting is gone

[Fluffernuff]

That is the definition of the word difficult. Crafting needed much effort to accomplish, therefore it was difficult. To argue otherwise is nonsense, that is the definition of the word. Did it take skill? No. Did it take understanding? Only if you wanted to improve your HQ chances. But it was "difficult" because of the large amount of time/effort needed. It was difficult enough that many players did not attempt it. If it were easy, they would.

I disagree with your use and assignment of the definition. in fact, lets use another one for you;

effort noun
ef·​fort | \ ˈe-fərt
, -ˌfȯrt\

"conscious exertion of power : hard work "
"a serious attempt"
"something produced by exertion or trying "

Effort was not needed to get to 50. or 60. or 70. or 80. Levekits exist. the Market board exists. They were not new inventions which SB. or ShB. If you have any friends or FC members looking out for you, these do not even require gil. you can be given the entire set of items- through no exertion of your own, stand in place, and click your right mouse button a few hundred times. This does not meet the requirement of "Effort".

skill noun
\ ˈskil
\
"the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance"
"dexterity or coordination especially in the execution of learned physical tasks"
"a learned power of doing something competently : a developed aptitude or ability "

as with effort, getting to level 50/60/70/80 and even gearing and materia required none of this- it can be given outright to you. potentially without any cost. and at this point, you can plug in a macro which takes no effort or skill to acquire.

the ability to be given levels outright by other players is WHOLLY unique to crafting. the closest thing we have is to buy a level jump for a singular battle class for real world cash. otherwise, you must complete quests. you must play your job. you must gather.

Crafting is the notable outlier requiring literal 0 input to not only advance in level, but to satisfy the highest percent of content locked behind it. leves were not added in ShB. they were not added in SB. they were not added in HW. I am not convinced by a singular misplaced and poorly used definition of a singular word in this exchange.

as an addition; "time" is such a constant, vague, and worthless addition to difficulty- which is why its NOT added into the definition. it takes "time" to take in a breath. is it difficult? no. it takes "time" to walk to the store. is it difficult? no. time is a constant and effects all aspects of everything- its the combination with skill and effort itself that it starts to hold meaning in this stake. 2 things i do not believe have existed with crafting for several years now


The only part of "difficulty" we can potentially see eye to eye on (if we can decide where you even stand here), is that it takes an understanding to do your own crafting without these methods; the 2 notable things being weekly collectibles you must craft yourself and very specifically the 70-80 quests where you must craft the items yourself. and that "difficulty" is what we've already agreed upon- it is tedious, archaic, and convoluted. It is simply a wall of information to be sifted through.


in the VERY strictest of terms, there are shades of being "difficult"- i even agreed to this before in the double post. I personally find healing to be "difficult". it is a particular set of abilities my brain just doesnt agree with; however.... take a look at the healer forums. reddit. the balance discord. tell me how many players consider healing "difficult".
an easily bypassed or surmounted aspect of something does not make the whole. as it stands, as it has always stood, crafting requires very little from you.

I simply believe there was never a "good old days" of crafting. it has not changed over time. it has simply bloated and we have gotten much more effective and obvious abilties to make the system unable to keep up with it's own power creep.

I will offer a concession though;
the only potential outlier to this is 1.0. i have not researched into what skills you had. I am hesitant to talk about things i do not firmly have my own thoughts/fact to fall back on. it could have been a system that did not rely on manipulating a %age skill for a static result.
But even agreeing to that...... it does not change the reality we have had for 6 years now; we are at the logical evolution to a flawed system

[CookiesNCreams]

Effort was not needed to get to 50. or 60. or 70. or 80. Levekits exist. the Market board exists.

I think we both agree that leveling crafting is just a matter of time, and essentially no thought or skill is required to level it.

As for difficult/effort though, you could apply the shortcut logic to almost anything in game or in life:

It takes effort or skill to complete raids in ffxiv... no, you could buy clears, therefore endgame raids are easy.
It takes effort to earn gil in ffxiv... no, it can be bought, therefore earning gil is easy.
It takes effort to earn irl money... no, you could win the lottery or get welfare, therefore getting money is easy.
It takes effort to complete a marathon... no, you could get a ride, therefore completing a marathon is easy.
It takes effort to cook food... no, you could could eat out or buy a precooked meal, therefore cooking food is easy.

But even if someone chooses to do only leves to level crafts, and they have friends provide them everything to turn in, it is effort by definition:

"a serious attempt"

Even with leves, a player is making a serious attempt to level their crafts. It takes hundreds of leves, each leve requires HQ items, unless you want to use double the leves. They must obtain all these items somehow. Even if these items are all handed to them, effort... a serious attempt... was spent by the player as well as the others helping the player to obtain and turn in the leve items.

It takes around 1,200 leves to get crafts to 80... that is 200 days worth of leves since you only get 6 per day. So, even doing the easiest possible crafting leveling takes dedication. It is a serious attempt, so it takes effort, so it is difficult. BUT... it is difficult only in the sense that it is a huge grind, taking a lot of time. In no other way is it difficult.

Most players have to spend a huge amount of time and/or gil to level crafting, which is good, it gives a player a sense of accomplishment completing it.

Anyway, I have no issue with SE making it easier or harder to level crafts, it was never anything but a grind. I am interested in end game crafting being too easy now. That is what is "dead" now... end game crafting. Once someone reaches level 80 crafting, all they need is a set of inexpensive gear, spend a few hours producing their own materia needed for melding or just buy the materia, copy a macro from online, buy a few mats on the MB, then bam they are an end game crafter just like everyone else at lv 80 and can guaranteed 100% HQ everything. If the only way SE can think of to make end game crafting more difficult is by adding RNG and using materials which are very grindy to obtain such that each end game craft puts a lot of time and/or gil on the line, then so be it. Better that than end game crafting being what it is now with HQ end game crafted gear being sold on the market at the prices of NQ NPC gear.