Issues enjoying RDM

[RezPls]

Why does the summoner get total work over buffs and red mage doesn't hardly ever get anything. Doesn't the summoner have raise and a healing spell. Black mage doesn't does not need raise. There endless mana pool makes up for it and more.

Because SMN has a terrible job design in 5.0, it's abilities don't work well together, and it pulls very low DPS for it's strict flow.

RDM works perfectly fine and just needs a potency buff.

[MrKusakabe]

I hope that Square Enix does not touch Verraise and Vercure for several reasons.

1) Lore/Immersion:
To me, the damage difference is perfect and justified. Why? Red Mage is always supposed to be the "Jack of all trades, but the master of none". Since 1987, when it has been introduced in the first Final Fantasy.


If you want damage, then you have to specialize in Black Magic. If you want to have a full healing/supporting abilities, you can specialize in White Magic. If you want RDM to be as or nearly as powerful as a BLM, it sounds like you refuse to use a Rocket Launcher in a shooter game and rather want the SMG to have splash damage and massive impact as well. Why would you want that? Especially in a game where you can switch professions instantly like FFXIV allows you to.

From that one thread after the recent patch, I have saved a chart showing the rDPS or whatever some user posted. RDM is charted as roughly 10,500 and BLM as 11,500 (+- 100 as it's just a chart without numbers). That is a difference of a mere 9,1%. This is perfect in my opinion as this means you have a reason to switch to BLM but also enough reason to stick to RDM damage-wise.

2) I really, deeply enjoy to have a rich toolkit.
I know it's iffy to use Verraise and Vercure, but to have it saved my life, my team mates lives and randoms lives so often, and it's just beautiful to have it! Also to stop "You spank it, you tank it" healers that refuse to heal a poor soul - I can jump in to stop that kindergarden and keep my other DPS mate alive.

Such a joy to dish out arcane death and thanks to Dualcast save-Vercure a mate on the instant after it. This is RDM-awesomeness, and many of you seem not to see the many facettes of this incredibly beautiful profession but want to have it changed it in favour of DMG, DMG, DMG! (Which is sad)

If you want to change one of the signature profession of this game franchise that exists like this design philosophy in mind since 32 years just because you refuse to play the other viable option, Black Mage, then I don't know what arguments could reach you..

What I just think is a bit too quick is our Rapier combat. Especially the shared timer of Engagement with Displace is kinda strange and I do not see the point of that. Potency-wise, the last time I did a check and the Close Combat fight was roughly 31% of our skills, meaning 69% of our entire skill's potency comes from magic. This sounds so much for the melee portion, but the actual combat lasts so short for two reasons (which are awesome and well-thought again!):

* Weapon skills are always quick - especially Rapier/fencing

* We have not the defensive stats / HP pool to sustain long face-to-face fights, so retreating back into safety as soon as possible is also a gift we RDM have.

I do understand where some of you come from though; I just came from a Duty Roulette in the Great Library and I was hardstuck on #3 vs a Machinist. But then, the healer was a first-timer, and I assist-Vercured trough the Wall-to-Wall pulls, which reimbursed me for that a lot.


And last but not least: Maybe Red Mage is not your thing? If you really want to take away Verraise/Vercure - a core part of RDM - to turn it into something that this profession never was meant to be...


Sincerely,

[YojimboM]

I really wish this "RDM has low DPS" meme would end. Both BRD and DNC have lower (significantly lower in DNC's case) rDPS and personal DPS ceilings than RDM. If you are doing "low DPS" on RDM, then you are playing it incorrectly or poorly. Its DPS is fine for a utility caster. SMN and RDM are even equivalent in both rDPS and personal DPS right now in single-target fights.

Remember, when you pick RDM, you are picking a job designed to make the real DPS (melee DPS) in your party stronger. Do not expect to put out as much DPS as a BLM or MNK or SAM. That's not how the job has ever or will ever be intended to work. If you want to do those kind of personal DPS numbers then change your job. And yes, your value as an RDM is directly tied to how good the physical DPS in your group is, so if you're in a static with really bad physical melee and ranged DPS, then you might consider SMN or BLM instead if you must play a caster.

[linay]

Close Combat fight was roughly 31% of our skills, meaning 69% of our entire skill's potency comes from magic.

Enchanted versions of weaponskills are magical in nature, and I don't see a need to not use the enchanted versions. That leaves only 5 offensive abilities in all of Red Mage's repertoire that may not be magical.

[Awful]

Snip

It's not all about dmg dmg dmg, when it comes down to RDM I look at its evolution from SB and it's barely changed at all, I find some fun in it but nothing changes other than Reprise and Manafication you barely use Reprise as well. Scorch is the only thing to look forward to and even then it's just another finisher for RDM, while flashy is just more of the same I was looking for something more dynamic as well as more magic to use like Water or Ice.

It's nice to Raise at will with Dual Cast and I appreciate the new AoE rotation but outside of that it's just not as fun as I was hoping it'd be I'll still level it for the Amaro mount but that's about it RDM doesn't leave me with the fun it was in SB it just leaves me with a stale taste in my mouth with how much it hasn't changed.

This is just my thoughts it's totally fun and playable in anything I was just hoping for something more in ShB and it didn't deliver for RDM sadly.

[SaberMaxwell]

I really wish this "RDM has low DPS" meme would end. Both BRD and DNC have lower (significantly lower in DNC's case) rDPS and personal DPS ceilings than RDM. If you are doing "low DPS" on RDM, then you are playing it incorrectly or poorly. Its DPS is fine for a utility caster. SMN and RDM are even equivalent in both rDPS and personal DPS right now in single-target fights.

It's a meme because its true. Just because it's not the lowest doesn't mean it's not "low," and in point of fact fight pending it actually is lowest in Eden Prime and Leviathan, and only higher than Dancer (which I'm sure we can agree is likewise undertuned) in the other two fights. Honestly the rest of the post isn't worth responding to because of this. If RDM's rDPS, which is the representation of its total contribution including Embolden, is among the lowest in the game it's not worth taking over its peers. It doesn't matter that it's not supposed to keep up in pDPS with Black Mage, right now it's just not competing at all.

[dinnertime]

I really wish this "RDM has low DPS" meme would end. Both BRD and DNC have lower (significantly lower in DNC's case) rDPS and personal DPS ceilings than RDM. If you are doing "low DPS" on RDM, then you are playing it incorrectly or poorly. Its DPS is fine for a utility caster. SMN and RDM are even equivalent in both rDPS and personal DPS right now in single-target fights.

Remember, when you pick RDM, you are picking a job designed to make the real DPS (melee DPS) in your party stronger. Do not expect to put out as much DPS as a BLM or MNK or SAM. That's not how the job has ever or will ever be intended to work. If you want to do those kind of personal DPS numbers then change your job. And yes, your value as an RDM is directly tied to how good the physical DPS in your group is, so if you're in a static with really bad physical melee and ranged DPS, then you might consider SMN or BLM instead if you must play a caster.

...Nobody really expects RDM to be as strong as a BLM or MNK (which is overtuned) or SAM (which is undertuned). We know it as a support caster (or lack thereof) so it won't reach those personal DPS numbers, but RDM along with the rest of the ranged jobs are actually undertuned at the moment. It's not a meme, it's true. A BLM or MNK that messes up a fair bit or dies once or twice still does better than a RDM that plays perfectly, and that's unfair.

[YojimboM]

It's a meme because its true. Just because it's not the lowest doesn't mean it's not "low," and in point of fact fight pending it actually is lowest in Eden Prime and Leviathan, and only higher than Dancer (which I'm sure we can agree is likewise undertuned) in the other two fights. Honestly the rest of the post isn't worth responding to because of this. If RDM's rDPS, which is the representation of its total contribution including Embolden, is among the lowest in the game it's not worth taking over its peers. It doesn't matter that it's not supposed to keep up in pDPS with Black Mage, right now it's just not competing at all.

RDM is equivalent to DNC and higher than BRD in e1s, higher than BRD and DNC in e2s, SIGNIFICANTLY higher than BRD and slightly lower than DNC in e3s, and higher than both DNC and BRD in e4s. I literally just looked at FFlogs again to confirm it. It's 3/4 for better/equivalent than both DNC and BRD. You should check the numbers again, "not worth responding to".

You take RDM when you're on farm because one of your ranged is better at it than BRD/MCH or SMN/BLM, or you have really good physical DPS. That's the only reason. Just like every single other job in the game. Someone could be super trash at MNK and play DRG instead to be worth more to their party. It's called job balance. And that's why RDM is perfectly fine how it is, it is not intended to be stronger than DNC or BRD (only equal) and why people can whine about RDM DPS forever and SE will never change it. Pick a different job.

...Nobody really expects RDM to be as strong as a BLM or MNK (which is overtuned) or SAM (which is undertuned). We know it as a support caster (or lack thereof) so it won't reach those personal DPS numbers, but RDM along with the rest of the ranged jobs are actually undertuned at the moment. It's not a meme, it's true. A BLM or MNK that messes up a fair bit or dies once or twice still does better than a RDM that plays perfectly, and that's unfair.

How is it unfair that jobs whose sole purpose revolves around them being perfectly executed to even be worth bringing do higher DPS more easily than a job that brings multiple utilities EVEN NOW in Shadowbringers after they neutered everything? And I guarantee you that a MNK or BLM that died twice will never do more DPS than an equally skilled RDM who hasn't died. There is no coming back from double weakness.

[dinnertime]

How is it unfair that jobs whose sole purpose revolves around them being perfectly executed to even be worth bringing do higher DPS more easily than a job that brings multiple utilities EVEN NOW in Shadowbringers after they neutered everything? And I guarantee you that a MNK or BLM that died twice will never do more DPS than an equally skilled RDM who hasn't died. There is no coming back from double weakness.

Perfectly executed to be even worth bringing? That applies to all jobs. Higher DPS jobs like BLM and MNK after Shadowbringers had their weaknesses pretty much alleviated or outright removed so they're not hard to play efficiently.

And did you even read what I said? People don't expect RDM to do more DPS than a BLM, but it's so behind that it's becoming a problem. There's literally about more than 1k difference in DPS between the two and that is not okay. It's the same for all the ranged jobs that isn't BLM.

DPS job balance is more messed up right now and nobody would be complaining so much if it wasn't. It's not that deep.

[SaberMaxwell]

RDM is equivalent to DNC and higher than BRD in e1s

RDM:
Min:
8,336
Low Quart:
9,306
Median:
10,334
Up Quart:
11,205
Max:
12,021

BRD:
Min: 9,089
Low Quart:
9,982
Median:
10,885
Up Quart:
11,473
Max:
12,013.87

Red Mage only overtakes Bard at the maximum, at every other level of the statistic it is lower than Bard, and these are the two lowest in rDPS--that means total contribution. Even then, Bard is 8 DPS more than RDM at the maximum.

higher than BRD and DNC in e2s

Bard is higher than Red Mage at every level until the maximum, once again.

SIGNIFICANTLY higher than BRD and slightly lower than DNC in e3s,

Wanna try again? Beaten by Dancer at every level until Maximum once again, and again, we can agree Dancer is undertuned.

and higher than both DNC and BRD in e4s. I literally just looked at FFlogs again to confirm it.

So did I. It's just barely eking above Dancer and Bard.

It's 3/4 for better/equivalent than both DNC and BRD. You should check the numbers again, "not worth responding to".

It's not, and honestly you're also not even considering RDM isn't competing with Dancer and Bard, it's competing with Summoner and Black Mage. Taking double caster means saccing a Melee spot, and god you wouldn't drop a melee for any of the ranged besides a second Black Mage, and even then, you're more likely to see a ranged dropped for a second Black Mage anyway.

Your position is "Red Mage's damage isn't low because it's not the lowest." That's a stupid position to take considering it's fighting tooth and nail against the weakest jobs in the game that it's not even competing for a spot in the party against. Your party comp won't ever be Melee Melee Caster Caster (exception: Melee Melee Black Mage Black Mage) because not taking a ranged DPS means sacrificing 1% total stats for the whole party.

You take RDM when you're on farm because one of your ranged is better at it than BRD/MCH or SMN/BLM. That's the only reason. Just like every single other job in the game. Someone could be super trash at MNK and play DRG instead to be worth more to their party.

A 99% RDM is weaker than a blue percentile Black Mage in rDPS. This is not true comparing MNK to DRG.

It's called job balance. And that's why RDM is perfectly fine how it is, it is not intended to be stronger than DNC or BRD (only equal)

Nice goalpost shifting. You went from "It's not supposed to be strong as Black Mage" to "It's not supposed to be stronger than DNC or BRD!" With an attitude like that RDM will literally only be good for prog and promptly dropped for Summoner or Black Mage--its actual peers.

and why people can whine about RDM DPS forever and SE will never change it. Pick a different job.

Except it's getting buffs in 5.1, not only to potencies but to rotational consistency. Whomp whomp.

And I guarantee you that a MNK or BLM that died twice will never do more DPS than an equally skilled RDM who hasn't died. There is no coming back from double weakness.

tfw the qualifier needs to be Brink for two jobs to even be comparable. Yeah that's job balance alright.