“Console limitations” excuse will not hold up in 2020..

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I agree. They began catering to mainstream “accessibility” crowds once 4.0 started. Hopefully 5.1 or 6.0 marks the end of that. They’ve done plenty for that crowd, so either they should show compassion for the fans who have played since day 1, or just start a new mmo with a new engine.

Accessibility is never going to go away. Several games have tried to be the "mmo for hardcore" players, one being wildstar. that game is dead. Most of the others are dead or dying. They are not going to ever be a real thing again, that market is not big enough to sustain development anymore.

[CookiesNCreams]

Accessibility is never going to go away. Several games have tried to be the "mmo for hardcore" players, one being wildstar. that game is dead. Most of the others are dead or dying. They are not going to ever be a real thing again, that market is not big enough to sustain development anymore.

Firstly, wow, I didn’t know that about WildStar lol. I never played it so it’s a shocker to me that it’s in decline due to it being hardcore. That sucks and all, but my only arguement to that is: Remember 2.x and 3.x of FFXIV when things were fairly difficult and kind of hardcore? Especially the favors patch in HW. Crafting was absolutely brutal back then. From what I remember, FFXIV did just fine during that time, unless you can show me sales statistics of it failing then.

Plus, it’s Final Fantasy. A huge franchise in the gaming community. I just don’t think many people would let the game die due to hardcore activities. I just find accessibility to be slightly insulting to die hard fans, especially. It’s even more insulting when developers refuse to put in at least a few more hardcore activities with worth while rewards.

An MMO doesn’t need to be hardcore only, it can just have hardcore activities with worthwhile rewards, that separate a player’s work ethic. For example. If you clear 5 difficult Yorha raid bosses (let’s pretend this is like Alexander savage) on Savage difficulty, you receive a 2B hairstyle that cannot be sold on the marketboard, and a Pod minion that can be sold on the marketboard. What do you see wrong with something like that?

Me personally, I see nothing wrong with that. I just don’t.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Firstly, wow, I didn’t know that about WildStar lol. I never played it so it’s a shocker to me that it’s in decline due to it being hardcore. That sucks and all, but my only arguement to that is: Remember 2.x and 3.x of FFXIV when things were fairly difficult and kind of hardcore? Especially the favors patch in HW. Crafting was absolutely brutal back then. From what I remember, FFXIV did just fine during that time, unless you can show me sales statistics of it failing then.

Plus, it’s Final Fantasy. A huge franchise in the gaming community. I just don’t think many people would let the game die due to hardcore activities. I just find accessibility to be slightly insulting to die hard fans, especially. It’s even more insulting when developers refuse to put in at least a few more hardcore activities with worth while rewards.

An MMO doesn’t need to be hardcore only, it can just have hardcore activities with worthwhile rewards, that separate a player’s work ethic. For example. If you clear 5 difficult Yorha raid bosses (let’s pretend this is like Alexander savage) on Savage difficulty, you receive a 2B hairstyle that cannot be sold on the marketboard, and a Pod minion that can be sold on the marketboard. What do you see wrong with something like that?

No, wildstar is dead, as in, shut down, no longer available dead.


Crafting wasn't brutal in 2.x or 3.x. it was tedious.

Also, as for your statistics on xiv doing just fine then, I'd like to point out that Alexander Gordias savage was tuned so high, that it broke statics to the point that the games raiding scene didn't recover until Creator, a year later. Even then, it didn't return to coil levels of popularity until Stormblood.

Also, yes its a huge franchise. But look at ffxi. It was "super hardcore" and also Final Fantasy, and yet, XIV has had a much larger playerbase, in part due to the accessibility. You take that away, and those die hard fans of FF aren't going to stick out a game they don't enjoy.

Harder content is fine. I do savage, I enjoy difficult content. However, you can't say to ignore the most populous of the playerbase because that is what keeps the game going. Removing accessibility is not the way to make the game better. That is how you make your game die.

[CookiesNCreams]

No, wildstar is dead, as in, shut down, no longer available dead.


Crafting wasn't brutal in 2.x or 3.x. it was tedious.

Also, as for your statistics on xiv doing just fine then, I'd like to point out that Alexander Gordias savage was more difficult than coil, to the point that the games raiding scene didn't recover until Creator, a year later. Even then, it didn't return to coil levels of popularity until Stormblood.

Also, yes its a huge franchise. But look at ffxi. It was "super hardcore" and also Final Fantasy, and yet, XIV has had a much larger playerbase, in part due to the accessibility. You take that away, and those die hard fans of FF aren't going to stick out a game they don't enjoy.

Yeah, it was pretty boring, and the RNG from the hasty touches made a lot of people really frustrated with it. But, I mean it was brutal. Not as in. It was intellectual or anything, as you are just copying rotations from people online, more like “this RNG is so stupid” kind of brutal. I mean, it was.

Also.....uh, good point lol. I don’t really have anything else to say about the raiding now that you mention it. That’s absolutely true.

I never played FFXI much, so I can’t really speak on that game. And if what you are saying is true, then that’s pretty bad. I didn’t know that. What I’m trying to say is, why can’t there be a balance between these two types of players? Ones that want mainstream accessibility, and ones that don’t really mind the difficult stuff. Why does everything (or close to everything) have to be made so easy? That’s what I have an issue with. It’s not like these types of players don’t pay for the game.

[Nemmar]

I think it was in the last Q&A or an interview, YoshiP said that the hold back is not actually consoles, but they are reluctant to increase minimum requirements on PC. Actually console is more likely to get graphical upgrades with the PS5 cause all players in the console are in the same hardware unlike the PC ones.

Don't shoot the messenger. That's what he said, but i don't agree. I think the game needs a graphical upgrade and if that means raising minimum specs, then so be it. Just like the PS3 was sacrificed, some potatos need sacrificing as well.

[Gralna]

This is the current limiting factor of XIV as far as client end goes.

Here are the FINAL FANTASY XIV: Shadowbringers System Requirements (Minimum)
CPU: Intel® Core™i5 2.4GHz or higher
CPU SPEED: Info
RAM: 3 GB
OS: Windows® 7 32/64 bit, Windows® 8 32/64 bit, Windows® 8.1 32/64 bit, Windows® 10 32/64 bit
VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA® Geforce® GTX750 or higher
PIXEL SHADER: 5.0
VERTEX SHADER: 5.0
SOUND CARD: DirectSound® sound card (DirectX® 9.0c or higher)
FREE DISK SPACE: 60 GB
DEDICATED VIDEO RAM: 1024 MB

People like to harp on consoles limiting crossplay games, but in my experience it's always the low end PC that devs have to ensure can run the game that is the biggest limiting factor.

As for dropping PS4, I highly doubt the life of the game will drop PS4 and if it does it'll be post maintenance mode.

[Ghald]

I think I'm misunderstood when I said this game lost it's 'distict identity'. Let me clarify and my apology in advance, it's going to be long winded.

1. Lore
Originally this game has its own history and lore seperated from other Final Fantasy games while we do get recuring themes like magicteck, primal, etc, the idea of mixing Final Fanatsy 12 world with this game never occured to me as possible before it actually happened.
I do like FF12 but FF12 is FF12, it has its own unique history world and characters but now we got it in the form of actuall place that axist within FF14 world. We now have Viera and Rhothgar from FF12 and FF10 respectively. It was done because the fan wants it.
Soon we will get Nier world incorperate into this game lore as well, while it is cool to the fan to see their other favourite game appearing in this game, it dimishing this game identity. How far is Yoshida willing to give into the fan for these fan services? Are we going to see Kingdom Heart and God forbid The Avengers in this game in the future too?

2. World
The world ofFF14 in Real Reborn was rich and a joy to explore, small as it was it was packed with rich details in the environment, it sold me the idea that this world is a living breathing place. When Heavensward came out they introduce flight which in itself a cool exciting idea but the unintended consequence of that was a large empty world, even the city hubs are scaled to such a size that my hume character feels like an ant. The hubs itself haven't got any denser, it just scaled larger. I mean have you seen how big those lamp post are in Lakeland?
The size of the enmeies, over world and in dungeons, are scaled to rediculous size to keep it inline with the size of the world. Do you remember Vishap from The Steps of Faith? It was the largest enemy (discounting Bahamut) we encountered but if we go back there now it would feels like he's just a little bigger than your normal everyday mobs on the world map and regular dungeons.

3. Class/Job
Being an MMO I can see why the devs have a great challenge ahead of them to keep all jobs ballance, this however come at the price of the jobs identity. I remember in Realm Reborn, despite people opinion on its viability, Paladin and Warrior feel very distict from eachother now we have 4 tanks that play almost the same as eachother (Gunbreaker felt more unique IMO). Bard should have been the de facto support job yet it lost that to become just another DPS. Healers got.... lets not even get into that......

It's not hard core contents that I'm asking for but the quality of the game as a whole, right now it feels like we have too much to do but all are the same things with different dressing. The engine that they use itself is getting quite old, if they are trying to push for more pretty graphic then I think it is easier albeit more expensive to just switch to a new engine, one that specifically build with the game in mind.
Ultimately I don't think it will happen though, from business point of view, this game still stand to make a lot more money for years to come yet. What will likely happen is player like me will get tired of it eventually and leave but there's not enough of us to make any impact that would persuade them to make another MMO under the Final Fantasy banner.

[Halivel]

What I’m trying to say is, why can’t there be a balance between these two types of players? Ones that want mainstream accessibility, and ones that don’t really mind the difficult stuff. Why does everything (or close to everything) have to be made so easy? That’s what I have an issue with. It’s not like these types of players don’t pay for the game.

1. Most people come to MMO for communication and rest, not for burn in their lower part of body. Those who want the last play Souls Dark.
2. "Hardcore" Community in ff14 is about 5% of the whole playerbase. And this a balance that we have for a long time now. I highly doubt that reaching 50/50 balance is possible, unless if you want to see 100 people online on the whole DC.
3. If something is easy for you personally, it doesn't mean it's same for others. I know enough people who struggle even with Expert DR, still didn't clear Orobonne Monastery, and didn't even touch Normal Eden.

IThat's what he said, but i don't agree. I think the game needs a graphical upgrade and if that means raising minimum specs, then so be it. Just like the PS3 was sacrificed, some potatos need sacrificing as well.

They can't do it so easily, and if you was attentive to that answer of his you would know why. First of all they need to make a research of what kind of PC players use mostly. They actually do have this info from Benchmarks that check our specs, for example. According to my experience with people in the game, almost every second player in the game plays either on "potato" or on PC that is lower that "Middle level" spec, or on laptop, or etc. Shut down 50% of players because few guys with i.e. NVidia 2080 on forum want to give their card 100% load? Rational idea indeed, if you want to kill your playerbase completely. If people can pay for subscription it doesn't mean they have enough money to build new PC, and developer can't irresponsibly place them in position where they have to do it if they want continue to play. It's not one day easy-peasy decision.

[Rasikko]

1. Most people come to MMO for communication

The jury is still out on this. If even half of the talking done here was done in the game..that would be great.

[Ash_]

This game is far from pushing the PS4 hardware. Especially the Pro version. We have no way of really knowing, but I suspect the game is not even using 4 of the 8 gigs of available ram. The code seems more like the problem when the Pro high resolution mode framerate is so choppy and yet the console is still whisper quiet.