That ToS update that ruffled some jimmies a few months ago

[FedoraTheExplorer]

...you do realize that somebody would be able to report you for this exact statement right? Of course we should all be amicable to each other, but pay attention, as you go about to try & make "d*****bags" know how they crappy they are, be sure to not use literally the same exact kind of language and tone they do. You don't fight rudeness with rudeness, that's not how this works.

Okay, thank you for your completely useless opinion. Really made me think.

[Saefinn]

If you cant understand the difference between a company making an example out of a guy so that they dont lose out on an entire market, and a ToS saying "hey guys maybe dont use slurs" idk what to tell you.

OPs post is about company's banning you for offending someone uses the not at all similar example of Blitzchung as a comparison. Its a political statement, they didnt ban him because he said someone was garbage at hearthstone.

Yep. And the question here is. If what the guy did was not against Blizzard's ToS, would that have prevented Blizzard from banning him?

But I feel the bit people miss is the part that's come with the ToS: the Account Penalty Policy. What happens depends entirely on the severity of your offense and if you keep repeating it. So if you're being an a-hole about a person's rotation and they report you, the GM might be like "please don't, this is how you could handle the situation better". If you keep being an a-hole about people's rotations and lots of people have reported you for it, GM might be like "sorry mate, you have to learn, you're getting a lot of complaints, here's a temp ban", this ties in with their policy on "escalation".

The lowest level is "caution", which is them telling you what you can do to improve your behaviour. That's...nothing, really. And this is for stuff that's when what you've done is relatively minor and the person reported you.

The ToS gives an extensive list of examples, but some of those examples are pretty minor, but then they are still going to list stuff that's pretty minor, when they will caution in minor cases.

However, this is literally how moderating works in online communities...this really is nothing new, nothing special, nothing totalitarian.

But if SE wanted to abuse their power in a given situation, as long as their legal agreement covers their butt, arguably they can do what they like.

[Mavrias]

Yep. And the question here is. If what the guy did was not against Blizzard's ToS, would that have prevented Blizzard from banning him?

But I feel the bit people miss is the part that's come with the ToS: the Account Penalty Policy. What happens depends entirely on the severity of your offense and if you keep repeating it. So if you're being an a-hole about a person's rotation and they report you, the GM might be like "please don't, this is how you could handle the situation better". If you keep being an a-hole about people's rotations and lots of people have reported you for it, GM might be like "sorry mate, you have to learn, you're getting a lot of complaints, here's a temp ban", this ties in with their policy on "escalation".

The lowest level is "caution", which is them telling you what you can do to improve your behaviour. That's...nothing, really. And this is for stuff that's when what you've done is relatively minor and the person reported you.

The ToS gives an extensive list of examples, but some of those examples are pretty minor, but then they are still going to list stuff that's pretty minor, when they will caution in minor cases.

However, this is literally how moderating works in online communities...this really is nothing new, nothing special, nothing totalitarian.

But if SE wanted to abuse their power in a given situation, as long as their legal agreement covers their butt, arguably they can do what they like.

Square Enix could already 86 your account at their discretion.

The following is an excerpt from the FFXIV User Agreenent, last updated in 2013.

YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

The new ToS updates just give lists of possible reasons your account might be actioned upon. I'm sure blizzard's saays something similar.

[TheForce]

Okay, thank you for your completely useless opinion. Really made me think.

...this as well, lol. Aren't you supposed to be the guy who's against this type of stuff?

[Theodric]

As an aside, I'm hoping that we can see a bit more regulation that is consumer friendly in regards to how businesses that operate online choose to run things. It's more than a little dodgy that people can invest a lot of time, effort and money into a game but have it all taken away from them for any reason whatsoever. It puts a bit too much power into the hands of individuals who may very well be prone to bias and from what I have heard, there isn't really a proper appeal system in place if and when things go awry. At this point, there's usually a counter in regards to how everybody agreed to the terms of service. That's absolutely true, though thankfully some courts - in Europe, at least - do not consider ever changing terms of service to be the be all and end all that many businesses would no doubt like them to be viewed as.

Obviously if people do something utterly reprehensible then they should be punished, though I think there's a lot of room for more nuance than there is at present.

[Alleo]

The ToS is a difficult topic because if you have a system where humans are the one doing the punishment then there could always be cases were someone innocent is punished but imo these cases are probably in the minority. I doubt most of us would just be banned for nothing because we still bring in money. The situation with Blizzard was a bit different because that player used this event to make a political statement that could outright hurt the company financially. Of course they are in a way in the right to punish the player. I still believe that their punishment was way too hard and its great that the player did not care for his income and fights for human rights but its also in the right of the company to say no to that. Also what would the reaction of the people be if he had been for china? Would blizzard be attacked if they had taken him out? Would people be angry if they had not done much to him? Because if you say that someone is allowed to freely speak about political issues at a gaming event then you should also allow those views that are against the majority too.

In the end here on the forum most people that had been hit with a ban hammer deserve it. Honestly I am kinda surprised that some are still allowed to post at all. And right now I dont know about any person (at least on the forum) that was just banned for having another opinion which was posted in a nice and good way.

Some people didn't get the memo that "being a jerk" isn't something universally objective and it's completely subjective

"You disagree with me?!? You're a jerk!"

I am just curious, but can you give me an example for a person being punished because they disagreed about an opinion and were nice about it? Because I remember a lot of discussion were people disagreed with each other and sometimes it got a bit more heated but none of those were punished for it. There might be some GMs that see certain behavior sooner as being a jerk then others but honestly I doubt that if you are perfectly nice in your post and just argue against the arguments itself (and not the person) that you can be punished for it.

[NealSnow]

Blizzard in pr disaster mode also claimed blitzchung the player banned, was in the wrong because of a political statement that they should only have focused on the game itself no unrelated topics, trying to pass themselves as politically neutral. However many who play or have played overwatch knows how blizzard has used it to seem morally right by making characters gay suddenly to get brownie points. So if blizzard do it, it's suddenly okay, but a player does it suddenly it's a huge offense worth taking back the prize money and a 12 month ban? Sure...

And before anyone jumps down my throat, no I'm not against gay characters as long as it's developed naturally. I'm just using a case that blizzards know to do against them.

Post by CEO if anyone wants to read through the pr nightmare.
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/bliz...ers-tournament

Link will take you to blizzard site.

Will everyone reason to listen? Nope I know this well, I'm sure I'll get a few people trying argue because they just want to I guess. But US players held a sign supporting Hong kong and guess what? Weren't punished at all because ofc, china wasn't watching.

[NealSnow]

Can't edit on mobile (I don't think) purpose shouldn't be there.

[NealSnow]

Ugh, purpose shouldn't be in my initial post. If it randomly autocorrects to gibrish I'm gonna chuck my phone in the nearest river

[Caitlinzulu]

You can edit on phone, but you will have to open the desktop version of the site in your browser wich would be crap to navigate on a phone