Guess what WoW is doing with their auction house!!! Xd

[Maeka]

In that case why not full out allow everyone to bot?

Okay, so you somehow drew a comparison between me not feeling sorry for ultra-rich mass sellers and "why not just let everybody bot".

Excuse me? I don't see the logic there. Giving more power to the buyers has nothing at all to do with botting.

I want to have more control over what I buy and I don't like being forced to buy extra crap I don't need. What in Zodiark's name does that have to do with botting?

[gbfrfrbhtfgdbngf]

The market bots are already running rampant on the MB (WE ALL KNOW THIS) already so why not allow everyone to bot that way everything will be super cheap/free???

[Maeka]

The market bots are already running rampant on the MB (WE ALL KNOW THIS) already so why not allow everyone to bot that way everything will be super cheap/free???

Um.

I'm sorry. I still fail to see the logic.

It looks like a giant strawman.

"NO! I DON'T WANT THERE TO BE MORE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION CARS! We already have too many people speeding! Why not just remove the speed limit laws while we're at it!"

People are botting with the current system. If the new WoW System were implemented, people would be botting after the system. Whether or not it was implemented would have no bearing upon botting whatsoever.

[Awha]

Please correct me if I am wrong but what people want is for it to be a buyers market, and for sellers to require as little intervention as possible when it comes to selling items.

Sure that sounds great for people that enjoy that, but what about those that enjoy playing the market? I know of a few people that the main reason they are subbed, have multiple retainers is to play the market, for them that is there endgame / reason for playing.

I get when people want to make changes to systems they do not like they often forget about the other side. I just do not see the point to such a change outside of making it a buyers market. Will not reduce botting, will not reduce market flooding, only thing it does is to a degree normalize the market across the board. Which seems boring for those that enjoy playing the market.

[Maeka]

Please correct me if I am wrong but what people want is for it to be a buyers market, and for sellers to require as little intervention as possible when it comes to selling items.

Sure that sounds great for people that enjoy that, but what about those that enjoy playing the market? I know of a few people that the main reason they are subbed, have multiple retainers is to play the market, for them that is there endgame / reason for playing.

I get when people want to make changes to systems they do not like they often forget about the other side. I just do not see the point to such a change outside of making it a buyers market. Will not reduce botting, will not reduce market flooding, only thing it does is to a degree normalize the market across the board. Which seems boring for those that enjoy playing the market.

An MMO is about a collective of people.

How many average joes who don't wanna pay out the wazoo are there, compared to ultra-rich people who sell thousands of items per day?

I'm pretty sure there's quite a bit more of the former than the latter, but yet the latter are the ones who get all vocal, "NOOOOOO DON'T HURT MY PROFITS BRO!" because they somehow don't have enough money while they're sitting there with 10 digit figure gil. Considering the most expensive thing in the game I know of costs about 40-50 million gil, I just cannot fathom why or what someone could really do with "multiple billion gil".

But these are the players crying out against such change. The ones who already have too much stinking money to begin with.

Meanwhile the rest of us average joes who just wanna buy 3 fish to turn into the GC would prefer not to get ripped off with stacks of 5 in the Market.

[Awha]

An MMO is about a collective of people.

How many average joes who don't wanna pay out the wazoo are there, compared to ultra-rich people who sell thousands of items per day?

I'm pretty sure there's quite a bit more of the former than the latter, but yet the latter are the ones who get all vocal, "NOOOOOO DON'T HURT MY PROFITS BRO!" because they somehow don't have enough money while they're sitting there with 10 digit figure gil. Considering the most expensive thing in the game I know of costs about 40-50 million gil, I just cannot fathom why or what someone could really do with "multiple billion gil".

But these are the players crying out against such change. The ones who already have too much stinking money to begin with.

Meanwhile the rest of us average joes who just wanna buy 3 fish to turn into the GC would prefer not to get ripped off with stacks of 5 in the Market.

I get MMO's are about the collective, but as it stands is the current market system does not seem inherently broken or flawed just comes down to people wanting the system to be far more forgiving or normalized which I guess I do not understand. It seems that this change comes from a place of disdain towards a certain group of players instead of a change based around the betterment of the game as a whole. If that makes sense.

Do not get me wrong, I can see how such would help those who share your complaints or other complaints like undercutting I guess I personally feel as it is not such a major issue as people are making it seem to be.

[Maeka]

I get MMO's are about the collective, but as it stands is the current market system does not seem inherently broken or flawed just comes down to people wanting the system to be far more forgiving or normalized which I guess I do not understand. It seems that this change comes from a place of disdain towards a certain group of players instead of a change based around the betterment of the game as a whole. If that makes sense.

Do not get me wrong, I can see how such would help those who share your complaints or other complaints like undercutting I guess I personally feel as it is not such a major issue as people are making it seem to be.

I used this example in another thread:

Say I want to make a sword for a BSM GC Turn-In. Let's say this theoretical sword wants 2 Nuggets, 1 Lumber, 1 Glue, and 2 Ingots.

I go to the MB and check Nuggets. The smallest stack listed is 20 nuggets @ 30,000. The lumber is 30 @ 40,000. The glue is 25 @ 50,000 and the ingots are 10 @ 25,000.

If I were to actually buy these, it would cost me 145,000 gil to make 1 sword, and it would leave me with 18 nuggets, 29 lumbers, 24 glues, and 8 ingots that I have to try and resell. I would likely get undercut, and when somebody does buy them, I have to pay the sellers' tax which costs me more money.

If I could buy 1 at a time, I would only have to pay 11,400 gil to make that sword and I wouldn't have to play around with trying to resell or find some use for all that excess material. One might argue I could just keep the materials, I might need them later.... but what happens if the GC decides, "hey you dinged a level, we're no longer going to accept that tier of items from you"? Now I got a pile of useless junk on me that I have to resell, spending my time and money to deal with it.

This, then, is one of the major reasons why I refuse to level DoH classes until Beast Tribes. Maybe if I could buy exactly what I need to do the daily turn-ins, I would have Level 80 DoH by now.

[Awha]

I used this example in another thread:

Say I want to make a sword for a BSM GC Turn-In. Let's say this theoretical sword wants 2 Nuggets, 1 Lumber, 1 Glue, and 2 Ingots.

I go to the MB and check Nuggets. The smallest stack listed is 20 nuggets @ 30,000. The lumber is 30 @ 40,000. The glue is 25 @ 50,000 and the ingots are 10 @ 25,000.

If I were to actually buy these, it would cost me 145,000 gil to make 1 sword, and it would leave me with 18 nuggets, 29 lumbers, 24 glues, and 8 ingots that I have to try and resell. I would likely get undercut, and when somebody does buy them, I have to pay the sellers' tax which costs me more money.

If I could buy 1 at a time, I would only have to pay 11,400 gil to make that sword and I wouldn't have to play around with trying to resell or find some use for all that excess material. One might argue I could just keep the materials, I might need them later.... but what happens if the GC decides, "hey you dinged a level, we're no longer going to accept that tier of items from you"? Now I got a pile of useless junk on me that I have to resell, spending my time and money to deal with it.

This, then, is one of the major reasons why I refuse to level DoH classes until Beast Tribes. Maybe if I could buy exactly what I need to do the daily turn-ins, I would have Level 80 DoH by now.

I get what you are saying, but how exactly is that a problem SE should try to fix? As you said you could easy keep the mats, craft extra swords then sell them on the MB. Sure none are very clean options as to opposed to simply buying what you need, but at that point if MB works like that what would be the point of the MB may as well be a player supplied vendor with "potentially" varied prices.

Just not sold on the idea that this is such a major issue that it needs changing, and more so seems like a personal issue a few people have with the current system. I mean I would understand if no options were present and one was just stuck with the items forever, but someone can always keep the items, try to resell them or craft extras of the completed item and sell that item. Maybe I am just a complacent person and that is why I fail to see an issue with your example since to me it largely seems like a personal problem and not one inherently wrong with the system.

[Shurrikhan]

Maybe I am just a complacent person and that is why I fail to see an issue with your example since to me it largely seems like a personal problem and not one inherently wrong with the system.

Is is wrong for the system to act in that way? No. But neither would the highest possible fee MBs could tax without being avoided entirely be wrong. But would the player experience, likely for both buyers and sellers, be improved if it were to change away from that? Probably.

[Awha]

Is is wrong for the system to act in that way? No. But neither would the highest possible fee MBs could tax without being avoided entirely be wrong. But would the player experience, likely for both buyers and sellers, be improved if it were to change away from that? Probably.

I guess that is where my issue is, the current system is not broken, sure certain aspects may annoy some people but we have no way for certain to know if any change would have a positive impact on the players be it buyers or sellers. So I guess I am in the camp of why change something that is not inherently broken.