On Garo and Grand Companies

[enderandrew]

I'm a fairly new player. While I do have a few questions, this post is more overall commentary on PvP and Grand Companies as a new player and not a single question to be dropped in the question thread.

I spent my first 90 days focused on leveling (all the classes at once because I'm a glutton for punishment). I got one class above 50, and all the others to 45 and then suddenly my Road to 70 ended. Around the same time, the Moogle event dropped. Between it, and the upcoming expiration of the Garo content I'm suddenly motivated to throw myself fully into PvP for a few weeks. I haven't unlocked the level 50 dungeons that give you 10 tomes, not to mention that via PvP I can earn both tomes and wolf marks to maybe get a Garo mount before all that goes away.

My first class was Gladiator/Paladin and I started in Uldah. I like the concept of the Flames and selected them as my Grand Company. It seemed intimidating to have so many ranks in a GC to progress through, but now I'm a 1st Lieutenant and if wiki pages are current, I'm actually about to hit the highest level I can in my GC with current content. It does seem weird to have all these unobtainable ranks and I'm curious if the latest content and expansion has changed that.

It is also odd that I couldn't really complete "Flagged Mission: Crystal Recovery" (a level 40 mission) until I had a full squadron of level 50 members, and then only barely. I just unlocked priority missions, and even with level 52 guys, it says I have no shot at completing any of the level 40 missions. Are these properly balanced? I'm aware I can shift some attribute points with training, but even moving a few points around, I'd be well short of mission requirements even when over-leveled and that seems off.

...

[enderandrew]

Going back to PvP, I jump in knowing I will be new and probably not great at PvP in this game even though I've done it in other games. But it doesn't take long to realize the basics. Stay grouped. In particular, stay close to a healer. Learn to manage your cooldowns. Don't chase. Don't push unless you have equal numbers of better. Focus on objectives rather than kills. I learned this early on, and I still can't get a win because it seems like not enough other Flame players are aware of even these most basic lessons. And if we call these things out in chat, people still ignore nodes, chase and die.

I'm shocked that PvP gear doesn't appear to give you PvP advantages. I'm used to games where you really need to grind for PvP gear and it creates a difference between casual and ranked PvP, to where you can't compete in ranked PvP unless you have gear with significant PvP bonuses. I do like that regardless of the level you jump in with, there isn't just a level sync, but everyone basically has the same PvP abilities. Though I am a bit confused that someone told me as a PLD I should be able to silence casters and I'm not seeing an ability for that. I have my Shield Toss (brief stun) and that is about it.

I've played PvP a good 4 hours a night (and longer on the weekends) since the day the Moogle event started. I've bought most things from the Moogle event and earned well over 60k Wolf Marks. I bought a full set of Garo gear, including all the accessories, most of a second set, the 20k mount, a 15k minion, etc. But I'm afraid it might be impossible to unlock a Garo mount from 10 wins with the Garo title.

First off, I'm 58 on my highest class. I need to hit 60 just to equip the Garo gear and get the title. I imagine I might be able to hit 60 in 4 days if I have time to play every night. I have no idea when 5.1 will drop and all of this will end, but even given a few weeks, I don't see 10 wins as obtainable sadly.

Again, I'm in the Immortal Flames. The losing percentage with Flames is really depressing. Last night was Seal Rock. In at least half of the matches I was in, Mael hit 800 points with us finishing with less than 100 points. We didn't just lose, we were consistently embarrassed. There is no competition or feel that we have an opportunity to come close to winning.

I checked my stats and I have exactly 1 win all week, and that was when I popped in with Adders as a Freelancer.

Doesn't SE have stats on PvP that they examine for balance? I know the Mael players have the same classes and stats, but I'm wondering if something can be done with the Freelancer system and how the queue is handled.

If you play PvP full-time and you literally don't get a single win all week, that isn't a game that is fun that you want to continue playing and paying for. Game design should be focused on making something competitive.

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[enderandrew]

This game has been around for 6 or 9 years depending on how you look at it. How can we land on a scenario where an entire GC seems incapable of trying to focus on staying together or going after objectives? I pop in a Seal Rock match and we don't get a single node until 8 minutes into the match.

In speaking to the Alliances in PvP matches, I'm told this is the standard. Flames never win. Mael almost always wins. Everyone just knows this. What gets me is that frequently Mael has a lead and late in the match and the other two teams should be focused together on trying to stop Mael from winning, only for Adders to then Zerg the Flames and hand the win uncontested to Mael. Why wouldn't Adders try to do everything in their power to help their own chances to win?

I also don't know what exactly is meant by the Garo collaboration ending. I assume the vendor is going away and you won't be able to buy the gear and get the title. But if I get a Garo title before the event ends, can I eventually pop the achievements for the mounts later, or will I need to get 10/30/60 wins before 5.1? Google tells me there is no official date for 5.1, but it is expected to be October 22nd.

If I can't get 1 single win as Flames in an entire week, I don't see how 10 is possible before the 22nd, let alone 30 and 60.

I could swap my GC to Mael for a few weeks and see if that improves my luck. My only wins the past few weeks have been with Adders for the most part. Google says if I change my GC, I can return to my original GC at the previous rank. But I don't know what happens to my Squadron. I don't know if I need to level them again or not. I assume if I swap to a new GC at rank 1 with a really low cap for Seals, then I will lose most of the Seals I'm sitting on. What would happen if I got to officer rank in another GC? Would I use the same Squadron I have, or start a brand new Squadron in that GC?

[Noitems]

In terms of PVP the reason Mael is doing so well is because it's full of people who regularly PVP and those that do call outs to guide the team.

Flames and Adders will have times where a Premade group joins them and can decimate Mael if they're on their A-game.

It's no secret that most people are going to Mael to get these wins, BUT many expect to be carried and Mael absolutely hates that. So much so that people that those people cost us games when they don't do anything or don't listen.

Frontlines is a whole is an unbalanced mess just on the idea that the third team can either win you the game or cost it for you based on what they do. For example if Mael and Adder are constantly fighting and Flames are attacking Adder to get 2nd then it's giving Mael the game. On the other end if Flames are attacking Mael it could lead Adder to the win if they take advantage of it.

The best you can do for your team is have your map open, point out node spawns, and keep track of who has the highest score. If you're Third playing passive is losing you the game, you need to act and pinch when they're fighting and kill the team that's winning, get your team Battle Highs and play on the offensive.

If you're gonna be pinched by both teams back out and play defensive. Let them fight each other and you can either cap a new point or pick them off from the side. You don't want to stand there in the middle of it if both teams are on your sides.

I played mainly on Adder and have Freelanced with Flames multiple times, people don't listen to calls or pay attention and that's what does everyone in. If you want to be active and help your team with the little things you'll see better results then rushing in blindly and probably being farmed.

[Azure_dragon-]

I could swap my GC to Mael for a few weeks and see if that improves my luck. My only wins the past few weeks have been with Adders for the most part. Google says if I change my GC, I can return to my original GC at the previous rank. But I don't know what happens to my Squadron. I don't know if I need to level them again or not. I assume if I swap to a new GC at rank 1 with a really low cap for Seals, then I will lose most of the Seals I'm sitting on. What would happen if I got to officer rank in another GC? Would I use the same Squadron I have, or start a brand new Squadron in that GC?

When you switch grand companies you keep all of your squadron members. They will retain their levels and glamour. The only thing effected by switching Grand companies is your GC rank and the amount of seals you have and could possibly carry.

[enderandrew]

In terms of PVP the reason Mael is doing so well is because it's full of people who regularly PVP and those that do call outs to guide the team.

Flames and Adders will have times where a Premade group joins them and can decimate Mael if they're on their A-game.

It's no secret that most people are going to Mael to get these wins, BUT many expect to be carried and Mael absolutely hates that. So much so that people that those people cost us games when they don't do anything or don't listen.

Frontlines is a whole is an unbalanced mess just on the idea that the third team can either win you the game or cost it for you based on what they do. For example if Mael and Adder are constantly fighting and Flames are attacking Adder to get 2nd then it's giving Mael the game. On the other end if Flames are attacking Mael it could lead Adder to the win if they take advantage of it.

The best you can do for your team is have your map open, point out node spawns, and keep track of who has the highest score. If you're Third playing passive is losing you the game, you need to act and pinch when they're fighting and kill the team that's winning, get your team Battle Highs and play on the offensive.

If you're gonna be pinched by both teams back out and play defensive. Let them fight each other and you can either cap a new point or pick them off from the side. You don't want to stand there in the middle of it if both teams are on your sides.

I played mainly on Adder and have Freelanced with Flames multiple times, people don't listen to calls or pay attention and that's what does everyone in. If you want to be active and help your team with the little things you'll see better results then rushing in blindly and probably being farmed.

Frontlines also has the RNG elements. A few times we did play well and followed strats and either had a lead or were close at the end, for three Silver/A nodes to all pop close to one team at once at the end, fully deciding the match.

I do try to encourage the group to work together. When I pop into queue and see people get the achievement for their first Frontline match, I welcome them and give them a few tips to start. We'll open the map and call out when nodes are going to pop soon, call out targets, tell people to fall back and not chase, etc. The problem is that we have enough who ignore these things to prevent us from competing.

[Noitems]

Frontlines also has the RNG elements. A few times we did play well and followed strats and either had a lead or were close at the end, for three Silver/A nodes to all pop close to one team at once at the end, fully deciding the match.

I do try to encourage the group to work together. When I pop into queue and see people get the achievement for their first Frontline match, I welcome them and give them a few tips to start. We'll open the map and call out when nodes are going to pop soon, call out targets, tell people to fall back and not chase, etc. The problem is that we have enough who ignore these things to prevent us from competing.

Only Seize has TRUE RNG elements, and that's with tomelith placement. People have mapped out Shatter patterns and I've been with people who can predict when the next ones will spawn. Secure is by the numbers the most static mode and the only random elements are the other teams.

In regards to Seize keep in mind that while the RNG can suck you can still make the most of it. If they got three nodes at Mael and one at Adder and you got nothing, then attack Mael. They'll be fighting for three nodes, and will be overwhelmed with Adder coming after them too. Chances like that are the ones you need to act on and tell people why they should be doing it.

Dude not gonna lie that also happens on Mael, everyone has it. However by being constant about it and making smart plays, when they succeed people will start to follow you more and in turn help you. If they mess up it's best to politely state what went wrong so they know better and will be more prone to listen. Flagging your spots where you want people to go and stating like "Hold these two" or "Pinch Adder/Mael" will also give people an idea of what they should be doing by the situation at hand.

[enderandrew]

Only Seize has TRUE RNG elements, and that's with tomelith placement. People have mapped out Shatter patterns and I've been with people who can predict when the next ones will spawn. Secure is by the numbers the most static mode and the only random elements are the other teams.

In regards to Seize keep in mind that while the RNG can suck you can still make the most of it. If they got three nodes at Mael and one at Adder and you got nothing, then attack Mael. They'll be fighting for three nodes, and will be overwhelmed with Adder coming after them too. Chances like that are the ones you need to act on and tell people why they should be doing it.

Dude not gonna lie that also happens on Mael, everyone has it. However by being constant about it and making smart plays, when they succeed people will start to follow you more and in turn help you. If they mess up it's best to politely state what went wrong so they know better and will be more prone to listen. Flagging your spots where you want people to go and stating like "Hold these two" or "Pinch Adder/Mael" will also give people an idea of what they should be doing by the situation at hand.

RNG eventually equalizes for everyone over time (though I swear I have particularly bad RNG with crafting when abilities with 80/90% success fail 4 times in a row). The problem is defeatist attitudes that if Mael gets lucky pops, people assume they will win and don't try to stop them, or Adders are playing for second and zerg us, leaving Mael to get those nodes uncontested rather than Adders also trying to stop Mael so they have a chance to win.

I really don't understand the playing for second mentality.

[Noitems]

RNG eventually equalizes for everyone over time (though I swear I have particularly bad RNG with crafting when abilities with 80/90% success fail 4 times in a row). The problem is defeatist attitudes that if Mael gets lucky pops, people assume they will win and don't try to stop them, or Adders are playing for second and zerg us, leaving Mael to get those nodes uncontested rather than Adders also trying to stop Mael so they have a chance to win.

I really don't understand the playing for second mentality.

In Seize it doesn't LMAO. Seize can have 2 S ranks spawn in Adder's base, an A near flames, and a B by the beach. You need to be prepared for any situation even if it looks bad.

Yeah it sucks if people do that, but by explaining to them what you CAN do it builds good behaviors then just folding. If Adders are zerging for second, then you need to play defensive and move. Or bait them to attack Mael by giving them the node and pinching behind when they think they can claim it. Are you gonna win every game? No. Can you build a foundation for a winning strategy for the next? Yes.

People dunk on that mentality over reddit, this Forum, and in meme formats. Best you can do is convince your party it's a stupid idea. Always aim for first.

[enderandrew]

Geez. I just saw the standings webpage.

For weekly, Mael has 70 spots on the top list. Adders have 20. Flames have 15.

On monthly view, Adders are in last, but it just makes Mael look that much more dominant. Mael has 86 top spots monthly, 6 for Flames and 2 for Adders.

The point remains that Frontline PvP is HEAVILY skewed and that isn't competitive or necessarily fun.