War buffs and adjustments for 5.1

[NyneSwordz]

I'm not a competitive feast player, I just like playing warrior in frontlines mostly with feast on the side when queues aren't horrible.

With that said, I've pvped for years at this point, on a different account if anyone's wondering, and I have to say that the current pvp iteration of warrior is the worst by far.

In HW and prior, warriors had godly burst when properly equipped with crit. 2 shotting blackmages with double cleave crits was awesome. Ninjas killing themselves attacking me because of vengeance was awesome.

Then came Stormblood. Burst was nerfed to the ground, but by the end of stormblood, wars was the selfsustain king imo. It was great being able to hop into defiance and heal 60 percent of my heal back through IR IB spam. One v. One wars stood largely above the pack because of abundance of self heal.

Then came Shadowbringers, and burst has been improved in some good ways compared to Stormblood. No buff to keep up meant IR to instant fc spam does optimum damage right off the bat. Infuriate into Inner Chaos is great for snagging kills. FC reducing infuriate cooldown is great for even more FC spam!

But...and this is a huge but... self sustain and survivability took a gigantic nosedive, especially in frontlines.

Let me explain.

[NyneSwordz]

There are three culprits of why pvp warrior is a clunky unfun mess.

First is the "reduce infuriate" mechanic. Infuriate is on a 30 sec cd with each fc or inner chaose reducing that cd by 10 seconds. 10 SECONDS!

The long and short of it is that this crazy mechanic forces fell cleaves to a frequency so high that the warrior spends most of his time mashing on fellcleaves.

Second, inner chaos grants 25 rage. Combined with the "reduce infuriate cd" mechanic, this effectively destroys, not just the incentive, but even the opportunity, to use the wars 3 step combo ending in stormspath to generate rage and heal. In other words, path combo is practically useless - especially in frontlines when encounters aren't constant and don't last that long.

Third, nascent flash REQUIRES A PARTY MEMBER. By party member, the action bars even alliance members from satisfying the criteria. Nascent flash is the ONLY selfheal Warrior has outside of stormspath, which we have established is useless and doesn't even need to exist.

What my points 1, 2 and 3 above means is that in scenarios where there aren't party members nearby, the warrior, which was king of self healing in stormsblood, now effectively has the worst self healing of any of the tanks - for certain worse than paladins and gunbreakers.

So this is where warriors are now. Decent burst gameplay revolving around fc spam with little to no chance of using rage generating combos. Effectively little to no selfhealing in pvp. If there is no healer around, there is basically two options when the warrior is wounded, fight and die or run a mile a way from the fight and wait an eternity to get out of combat tick heals.

Or run and still die because sprint is no longer available as a role action.

My suggestion:

Get rid of rage generation on inner chaos.

Get rid of "reduce infuriate cd" mechanic.

Buff stormspath heal.

Get rid of party target requirement for nascent flash.

Buff fc and inner chaos accordingly to make up and for any dps loss resulting from the change to infuriate and related mechanic.

That is it.

I don't think warriors need any more actions. Just those changes above. But since more actions are being added, these are my top 4.

1) brutal swing - please remove stun from onslaught and just give wars brutal swing back. I really don't like using a gap closer to stun when all i want to do is stun. And then cry later when onslaught is on cd when i need it to gap close.

2) thrill - could always use more party and self heals. Would be great to get this back.

3) Upheaval - another dps button to push is always nice. Not sure how this would effect rotation and guage resource usage though. It has a nice animation.

4) vengeance - every tank should have its own mitigation cd without having to pickup rampart imo. I have fond memories of vengeance in pvp and it would be great to get it back.

[NyneSwordz]

One more thing, I just wanted to clarify why I find the current pvp warrior so upsetting and disappointing. The current war pvp build allows for an ample amount of resource generation BUT then TUNNELS that resource to ONE SINGULAR ACTION, fell cleave.

In the past, rage could be spent for optimum DAMAGE through fell cleave OR dumped into inner beast for HEALING.

That option is gone now. There's only unga bunga fell cleave times one billion and then die because of no heals.

I hope this gets fixed.

Or, not that anyone cares, I'm done with ffxiv pvp and maybe ffxiv in general and coming back only to complete msq and raids every 3 or 4 months.

I have high hopes for 5.1 changes to wars for pve and pvp. Please don't disappoint = p

[Shinklet]

have you been smoking them gysahl greens.

Tanks are probably in the most balanced state they've ever been in. Aside from paladin..

Warrior is still incredibly strong, best of the tanks along with drk, but i'd give a top tier player the edge on drk.

Warrior has been overpowered for two years, top tier for 4 and it will likely be top tier for 2 more years. What the hell is there to complain about.

You sound like all these whm, brd and drg mains that are mad because their op jobs aren't op and just 'ok' now.

[NyneSwordz]

have you been smoking them gysahl greens.

Tanks are probably in the most balanced state they've ever been in. Aside from paladin..

Warrior is still incredibly strong, best of the tanks along with drk, but i'd give a top tier player the edge on drk.

Warrior has been overpowered for two years, top tier for 4 and it will likely be top tier for 2 more years. What the hell is there to complain about.

You sound like all these whm, brd and drg mains that are mad because their op jobs aren't op and just 'ok' now.

How about you respond to the issues i brought up instead of making blanket statements?

Have you even played a warrior in pvp?

The infuriate mechanic coupled with IR effectively makes combos useless. Is having resource generating combos be worthless okay to you?

How about they delete combos for all tanks if you think that's okay.

Or how about SE make healing from holy spirit or aurora party target dependant so that we can have true parity among all tanks? Would that be fine with you?

I have no idea what is wrong with people like you who cannot seem to respond to arguments without resorting to some blanket statements which does not address facts and issues.

But okay. Thanks for keeping this thread alive though. Hopefully i can get some constructive replies in the future.

[Divinemights]

Everyone is free to express their opinion about the war and you also already describe how ridiculous OP WAR has been. The truth is WAR is still good for FF14 Frontline and Feast. It is only weak at 1 v 1 against other Meeles and Tanks. Also, since when MMORPG is balanced at 1 v 1.

[NyneSwordz]

Everyone is free to express their opinion about the war and you also already describe how ridiculous OP WAR has been. The truth is WAR is still good for FF14 Frontline and Feast. It is only weak at 1 v 1 against other Meeles and Tanks. Also, since when MMORPG is balanced at 1 v 1.

Of course everyone is free to say what they want. I just hope itd be something relevant thats all. Yes wars were great, but what relevance has that to wars NOW?

I didnt know being good once meant wars have to be garbage for a set amount of time to recompense the hurt feelings of other jobs.

And I'm just asking for parity not to be better than other tanks. And im asking for jank gameplay to be fixed. Whats wrong with what? Why respond to my valid critique and suggestions which are detailed with some irrelevant statement about how wars were once overpowered?

How about some constructive criticisms of my actual argument? Am I the only war pvper who finds stormpath combo useless because of how much rage is generating from just fell cleaving all day and night?

Am I the only one who finds it not right that other tanks have self heals untied to any party requiements while wars only real heal through nascent flash has a party target requirement? Am I the only one who finds it unfun to get wounded and have to sit on my potato behind to wait for tick heals?

I welcome criticism and counter arguments. It's just snarky irrelevant comments that irk me. This xpac is already what, 3 months in, Im just hoping my legitimate concerns are heard and was hoping others can join in the discussion with something useful to add.

[BloodRubyXII]

Of course everyone is free to say what they want. I just hope itd be something relevant thats all.

If you're not a competitive Warrior then no, it isn't relevant, because your understanding of how Warrior is balanced relative to other tanks, synergy with other jobs and at every level as a whole isn't there.

Calling this the worst iteration of Warrior is a massive stretch, ok so the burst isn't what it used to be, but the overall toolkit is insane. Being able to holm a healer out of LoS, or a Melee out of Healer LoS and force entire groups of people to reposition on one ability that is on a 45 second CD (thus meaning you will still likely have it for an immunity if needed) is absolutely unreal in terms of how good that is.

No longer having to apply butchers block makes switching/assisting kills extremely easy. Gauge is easy to come by and not having 2 cleaves or a cleave + 2 inner chaos up every single hard swap/burst is an unlikely scenario. You have to cleave just to be able to not overcap. Obviously you don't realise this because you're playing Warrior badly and don't use storm path.

Thrills gone, but great I can now Nasc someone 30y away which is great range. No more trying to position to thrill 2 people when they're on two different sides of the wall, or having to come back into pretty much melee range to do so. It's an incredibly underrated healing tool, and unlike TBN - it's free, Paladin doesn't have Clemency anymore, and Gunbreaker has to make an ST choice with Aurora (which isn't amazing - and forces you to brutal shell combo a lot to make it worth it, you can still burst as normal with Nasc). Oh and a gapclosing stun on half the CD as GNB's and DRK's ranged stun (even though it'll cost you a cleave in your burst has great peel capability and will put enough pressure on a healer to warrant losing a cleave). Ok plunge resists on KO/Assists, but that's not exactly often.

Game's more than likely balanced for Feast anyway, which means mentioning FLs in anything related to balance seemingly irrelevant in any case. As an ending point, I totally see your point of view, why you have it, and where you're coming from - Warrior isn't what it used to be in terms of how it's played. Almost soloing bad healers with an overload of cleave damage is a thing of the past. But it is as powerful as it has ever been, and you're also playing it wrong. You're also clueless about other tanks (mechanically) because Paladin's Holy Spirit might seem like it's some kind of sick healing on paper with req, but it's also your main source of burst and along with holy circle (which are basically shared abilities since they both cost 2500 MP, just obviously in AoE Circle nets a higher HP return) are the only source of sustain as PLD, considering Paladin's mitigation source is cover - and you generally want to avoid taking rampart to support it - not having reliable sustain isn't great, especially since you only get 1k mp back per combo. Have you ever even played Paladin? Even with intervene, it is not enjoyable to move around with, slows absolutely bully you yet you need the uptime to combo your MP back. I'll stop there because I think the point's been made. Get good at Feast, start doing some LP with good players and you'll realise why it'll still be a top tier job next season. And we haven't even had 5.1 yet.

And I don't even main tank, I play Warr in LP from time to time but even I know this lmao. I won't even start on any point I didn't cover because well, your knowledge of the game's balance and the fact you don't play properly means it isn't worth it.

Oh and above all else, on top of everything I just said - IR is still in the game and still provides 6 seconds of straight CC immunity - go ahead and compare that to another tank's offensive toolkit, you'll find that where they have strengths, Warrior covers all their weaknesses cos well, that's how balance works

[Noitems]

So I'm a GNB that just started playing WAR recently just for Feast. So take what I'm saying as is

I feel all four tanks are pretty balanced, with them excelling in some trait that make them amazing over the others in that field.

For WAR I really really like it in Feast, honestly a little bit more then the SB version which I ran on Frontlines for the entire expac.

Infuriate has been a pain in both PVE and PVP but I really enjoy how it gives you a buffed move but also gives you 25 BG back.

A lot of people playing seem to think the Inner Release Fell Cleave cycle is the end and they usually back down after, but having those Inner Chaos one after another is so juicy and i've tripped up a lot of people with it since they think my cycle is done.

Inner Release on it's own is KING. The fact that Ast's are running around spamming their aoe stun thinking it's safe and then the WAR is just plowing into them due to the ignoring, it feels so rewarding.

My favorite use has to be Holm and splitting the healer from the group. I LOVE catching heals going back to the spawn, keeping them locked and interjected while I just wail on them as the group keeps the rest away. It's really rewarding for great play and that's not even when you consider keeping them behind the fences which they always try running around.

Yeah it did lose the AOE heal (Nascent is a good replacement albeit requires more planning) and the burst is still a little more underwhelming with pruning, but I honestly find it a lot of fun and can really enjoy WAR the same as I did in PVP as well as PVE with how much fun it is.


Probably going to actually try ranked this season since the results with great people have been absolutely staggering on my end.

[Crit]

I play all classes in pvp except scholar, warrior is perfectly fine how it is, solid for feast and FL, aoe machine. Your understanding derives from 3.x it seems, the button squish of 4.x has made it so every job in its role in somewhat similar to easily understand but each job has it's own unique quirk to separate it. War is aoe, if you dont like it, reroll, gnb seems like right up your alley