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  1. #81
    Player
    PyurBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    725
    Character
    Saphir Amariyo
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 40
    Quote Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams View Post
    I. Not just MMOs, but I’d say at least 96% of online games regardless of genre, give some sort of positive reinforcement that gives player multiple motivations to grind certain content, and gain access to certain items that are exclusive. And if they are event locked, it simply encourages players to be more active then.
    That rewards exist across genres doesn't really change anything. I don't consider rewards when deciding if a game is worth playing.

    II. How exactly does positive reinforcement hurt a game? Back in 2.x and 3.x when Square Enix didn’t cater to lazy audiences that wanted everything spoon fed, the game did just fine and sold well. If they stayed the way things were, their FFXIV servers would still remain up for years and years to come. So the unnecessary accessibility and easy-mode endgame content was absolutely not needed...maybe for newcomers getting to 1 - 70, but experienced players...70+....no.
    I gave an example already, you can end up with something like Eureka where there are desirable items locked behind a mind numbing experience*. When people have to put up with something miserable to get something out of it, that is flat out bad game design. The experience should always take priority over the reward in my mind, that is what gets me to play. Having rewards doesn't make the game bad by itself, I wouldn't be playing FF14 if that was the case. Things go wrong when the incentive to play content leans too much toward the reward at the expensive of gameplay.

    *There is subjectivity on what is good or bad, so I can't state that Eureka was bad in absolute terms, but many players voiced disapproval with it.

    III. Forced locked content is in literally any game you play. You mean to tell me you just refuse to play a game because it actually wants players to have goals to work towards? Come on. This underachieving mindset will really hurt FFXIV rather than the opposite, honestly. It already has people upset and speaking up about it. “Arbitrarily locking people out of content”...oh please. Then by that logic, they are arbitrarily keeping things easy and free.
    Sandbox games don't typically have locked content, so it's not a component of every game. How common locked content is doesn't change the my reasoning either. I'd only refuse to play games that use rewards as their selling point or as motivation to slog through a mediocre experience. I'm obviously playing FF14 which has rewards, so their presence isn't going to make me leave.

    Locking content has nothing to do with difficulty either. Ultimate drops aren't arbitrary locked, you can get them whenever and it's still the hardest content in the game. Seasonal events are time locked and exclusive (unless they go up for sale later), and they aren't exactly difficult to get. In fact one of the more challenging things in the seasonal events is the Costa Del Sol tower. The only thing that it needed to entice players was challenge. There was no reward for completing it, and I find that completely fine. It makes the challenge the entire point and it doesn't incentivize people to ask for the challenge to be removed because they don't enjoy it.
    (2)

  2. #82
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by PyurBlue View Post
    When people have to put up with something miserable to get something out of it, that is flat out bad game design.
    I really doubt people really like doing the same dungeons a hundred times for tomestones. Yet, they do it, because it rewards the 2nd best gear in the game.

    Exactly like several Eureka debate back then, if you remove rewards from content, they'll all be dead after the first clear.
    (1)
    Y: I usually compare FFXIV with a theme park, but the Forbidden Land of Eureka won’t be a place where everyone would want to go. For example, there are people who don’t want to go to horror houses because they don’t see the point in getting scared on purpose. For example, on a date, the boyfriend might want to invite the girlfriend to go the horror house, but the girlfriend just doesn’t seem to find it fun. In other words, it’s not like everyone wants to go to the horror house, but there are people who just love the adrenalin rush they get from it. Think of Eureka as something like that.

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