Forced scarcity and exclusivity.

[Liam_Harper]

I'm fine with scarce, rare or very hard to get but I'm not a fan of time-limited exclusive at all.

WoW went for this in a big way. They removed multiple mounts, their Relics and massive chunks of important lore, storyline and pre-patch intros. The items never felt prestigious and it felt very punishing taking a break from the game for any amount of time. BFA even deleted the main storyline explaining how the last expansion ended and led up to the current one because they wanted it to be an exclusive reward.

That said, small vanity glamour, the occasional minion, titles, achievements and such make great exclusive rewards as a sort of "I was there" badge. But deleting large amounts of desirable collector items forever to try to force you into content before "it's too late" just feels bad.

Since having a lot of gil is something anyone can achieve if they're bored enough.

To be fair, no.

Putting it in perspective, if you earned 10 million gil every single day, no breaks or downtime, you'd only have 3.65 billion in a year. It'd take you nearly 5 years to get to 20 billion. The amount you need to be earning on average is massive.

I craft a lot and I could never come close to that daily income. I might on patch days or when sales spike, but on average even if I fill my retainers, demand just wouldn't be high enough to make that much profit. As much as people seem to dislike the extremely rich players, it's not easy. It takes considerable knowledge of the markets, economy, smart risks and patience.

[Gwenorai]

Snip

I never said I hate or dislike them for being rich - I just don't understand why it's being used as a defence for being a good player.

I still think my comment stands. 20billion? Heck no, what's the point of having that much gil? Useful if you have it though, but I wouldn't attempt it. I can applaud for the determination of going that far as it seems they've found something they enjoy. Having multiple alts with max retainers and maintaining them is tedious, so again, I applaud.

But it is easy to make a lot of gil just sat on your butt using macros and using timers to tell you when your node is about to spawn. Usually, if I want gil and I have the tolerance to do it, I can make 3mil* a day, ten days that's 30mil, 20, days 60mil etc. It starts rolling to the point where I'm making 'f*ck you money', and I'm not going to be able to spend it during my life on the game. Still, I don't see that as me being a good player or anything.

In the end, I suppose it's all based on opinion on what people think a good player is. And what a lot of gil is.

*I do this by making raid food and pots; craft with a macro and read a book. I only then move when I'm alerted my node is up - use another macro for the 800gp rotation. Repeat. Of course, it helps to abuse the easy to craft whitescripts turn-ins for rare ingredients.

[AnimaAnimus]

Putting it that way, I do understand the sentiment. I don't see it as "just a game", though, and I value the experiences and memories.
At the same time I look at "exclusives" I have and have been gathering/saving/stockpilling but never using and I can't help but ask myself "Why people get so upset over someone being able to use something I left to gather dust in my retainers for years", you know? Obviously different people see it differently, like you said. And because SE themselves give you a word and then goes back on it can be frustrating. So I definitely understand why it would be upsetting.

Normal items I agree, but with legacy items think about it like this. You were involved in something at work that was never done before, where you were constantly providing feedback to improve a system that was broken, a system that many abandoned or scoffed at when you mentioned it. But you stayed with it, you persisted, you invested tons of time into it when there were better things out there and it became just as important to you as it was to its creator. And after all your work was done, when you expected nothing in return, you were gifted with something small and unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but you were told it was a thank you for helping. You go home and have it on display for awhile, but then things get crowded and you have more to display so you pack it away.

Then someone walks in one day and says "hey I heard you used to give your people X and I want one too, its old so its no big deal, just gimme it cause I want one too" and that person who gave you this thing that meant so much just said "ok whatever" and gave it to them. You may not have it on display anymore, it may just be in a box somewhere, but it still loses its luster and instead of being a symbol or recognition and gratitude, it becomes one of betrayal. I mean, basically that's what it is.

If SE just started giving out legacy items or putting them on the mogstation it would definitely be a betrayal, no matter how long its been. They can make something similar, but that exact item should stay exclusive, as it was promised. I, for one, would unsub if the tattoo, legacy chocobo and what not was suddenly on the mogstation because that would soil my relationship with SE. I was here because I wanted to be, I expected nothing, but they gave me something to show their appreciation, and that means something. Taking that away would show us, that we as customers, as players, as fans...mean nothing.

[PharisHanasaki]

Normal items I agree, but with legacy items think about it like this. You were involved in something at work that was never done before, where you were constantly providing feedback to improve a system that was broken, a system that many abandoned or scoffed at when you mentioned it. But you stayed with it, you persisted, you invested tons of time into it when there were better things out there and it became just as important to you as it was to its creator. And after all your work was done, when you expected nothing in return, you were gifted with something small and unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but you were told it was a thank you for helping. You go home and have it on display for awhile, but then things get crowded and you have more to display so you pack it away.

Then someone walks in one day and says "hey I heard you used to give your people X and I want one too, its old so its no big deal, just gimme it cause I want one too" and that person who gave you this thing that meant so much just said "ok whatever" and gave it to them. You may not have it on display anymore, it may just be in a box somewhere, but it still loses its luster and instead of being a symbol or recognition and gratitude, it becomes one of betrayal. I mean, basically that's what it is.

If SE just started giving out legacy items or putting them on the mogstation it would definitely be a betrayal, no matter how long its been. They can make something similar, but that exact item should stay exclusive, as it was promised. I, for one, would unsub if the tattoo, legacy chocobo and what not was suddenly on the mogstation because that would soil my relationship with SE. I was here because I wanted to be, I expected nothing, but they gave me something to show their appreciation, and that means something. Taking that away would show us, that we as customers, as players, as fans...mean nothing.

I'm sure they will be added to the mogstation at some point. Exclusive rewards for fanfest, and other merchandise have been made available. Since it's legacy it might take longer.

Exclusive on this game means that it will be re-released for cash eventually :<

[Moonlite]

I'm sure they will be added to the mogstation at some point. Exclusive rewards for fanfest, and other merchandise have been made available. Since it's legacy it might take longer.

Exclusive on this game means that it will be re-released for cash eventually :<

I think you are close. They will tweak legacy stuff just enough to claim legacy players are still special. But the new item will be so close that it will just be semantics. Also why does no one ever ask for the moogle earring that came with the final fantasy collection edition. Which included games at the time that they didn't even make systems for anymore.

[Nirokun]

If you spent more time applying yourself you wouldn't be on this thread making stupid, baseless arguments for exclusive rewards just so you can pony around feeling holier than thou. Sense of awe? Inspire people to try harder? That's a load of BS and you know it.

Not sure what you mean, I think I apply myself when I feel like it--I placed in the Top 100 in Feast 3 times in Feast (whenever I thought the reward was nice).

As far as sense of awe, I don't know about you, but I've been playing MMOs for 15? years now and seeing skilled players all decked out in cool stuff is inspiring. For me, it gives me something to look forward to, something to strive for, even if whatever they have is not suited for me nor something I specifically want. I can appreciate the effort and dedication they had to get where they are.

It wouldn't mean anything other than that you were around for it. Someone better than you possibly wouldn't have access to the reward, making it worthless for anyone who's actually good.

Depends. For a seasonal event where the quest reward doesn't come back, you're right. But for anything else, where you have to work for it, much less fight amongst yourselves to prove you're better than the next, you're wrong. Any competition (I fully support PVE "World Race" timed-exclusive rewards) is limited by time. Anyone can try afterwards, but part of the competition is being there, at that time, in that competition, against those competitors, with the same amount of info (literally, no info except what you glean yourself) as everyone else.

Imagine if the the World First for any particular raid was won upon release. Then imagine some raid group coming afterwards, using the strategy developed by the initial raiders, but with overwhelming gear and job levels to kill the boss faster. They can't just usurp World First after the fact. That's unthinkable, but that's the argument you're using.

This is an mmorpg, scarcity, exclusivity and rarity are integral to the genre. If you don't earn it while it is relevant, why do you think you deserve it later when it's easier to get? That undermines everything better, harder working players have done.

And for what? So you get get another cutesy uwu outfit you probably don't care about.

You get it. You're the best. <3

[monk-dps]

I've never been one to strive for 100% completition in games, but I did like the idea of owning a few exclusive items. They make me feel like a true fan, and somehow appreciated as a consumer.
Little by little, I'm less enamored with the idea of the 'exclusives' in this game. They all get re-released at some point, making all my effort into obtaining it meaningless. For some, like me, spending money on this game, it's merchandise, collectibles, etc, it's not easy. I have to make sacrifices to attend the fan fests, concerts, buy the artbooks, pay the sub, pay my sister's/friends sub, spend an absurd amount of time farming limited time items, for what? It seems like all of that means nothing in the end.

In part, I'm thankful, I no longer have to worry about investing anything on this game. Since I can always get it at some other point.

How is people owning those items taking away your value for those items? How does someone buying them at the store take away any meaning you have? They should have the same value they had before since you not only got those items but you went to the fanfest and stuff. Me buying the mount or whatever doesn't take anything away from you. If the only reason they hold value is because other people can't get them after years of you having them then they apparently didn't hold any value then.

[PharisHanasaki]

How is people owning those items taking away your value for those items? How does someone buying them at the store take away any meaning you have? They should have the same value they had before since you not only got those items but you went to the fanfest and stuff. Me buying the mount or whatever doesn't take anything away from you. If the only reason they hold value is because other people can't get them after years of you having them then they apparently didn't hold any value then.

Yeah, but they sell the idea that they will be exclusive, and if you want them you must do x or purchase y. So you do.
Then a year after everyone can get it. How is that fair? Not buying into the exclusive bait anymore.

You thinking it doesn't take away from me it's your own perception of it because you are the person affected by not having it.
It does take away from me, because it's nice having a thing or two that make you different. Oh this person is legacy, or this person went to x fanfest, or whatever.

They shouldn't make popular items, like ff character costumes exclusive. But they should make an item that's distinctive for x or y event, or collectable purchased.
They make special titles for the winners of the pvp challenge, how is it different from me attending a FanFest, or buying the OST, artbook, etc.
Don't sell it as an exclusive, if it will be available for everyone. Simple.

[Nirokun]

Yet another incompetent retort. If the reward is specifically for "world's first" then duh, any idiot would agree that only the "world's first" deserves the reward.

I'm talking about general accomplishments and achievements. For example, Ultimate raids, which live up to their name perfectly: they're ultimate. Clearing them will always be impressive (assuming clears aren't bought) because everyone who attempts them will always be armed with the same tools, due to sync-only requirements. Forced scarcity would be removing even the opportunity to attempt these fights. Therefore it's a flawed concept that is objectively wrong.

I see, we are referring to different things entirely. I'm sure you support seasonal timed/exclusive PVP rewards that are only for the top 100 of each data center. Given that they are specifically only for the best of the best, during that particular time. Being that you can't reach back in time and play against players from another season, in a different balance patch, and all.

(We can disregard the false statement about being "armed with the same tools"--as balance patches and introduction of new jobs certainly changes the difficulty of the accomplishment. It's somewhat of an incompetent retort. <3)

[CookiesNCreams]

Yet another incompetent retort. If the reward is specifically for "world's first" then duh, any idiot would agree that only the "world's first" deserves the reward.

why so aggressive lol calm down