Forced scarcity and exclusivity.

[Mistyregions]

Because only an idiot believes that scarcity should ever be a determining factor for an achievement in a video game. If you can accomplish a feat, you deserve the reward. Period. No one cares who got there first. If you turn it into a race, then only no-lifers in their parents' basements can ever accomplish anything, which turns away gamers that are potentially even more skilled and talented, but only have limited time to play.

Imagine if, once X amount of teams cleared a fight, everyone else gets locked out from even being able to attempt it. That would be stupid. Therefore, forced scarcity and exclusivity is stupid. It's really not hard for a competent person to understand the concept.

I dunno, maybe I blur the lines and a I'm incompetent but when Lamborghini only makes 1000 of a special edition car I dont quit being a car enthusiast? I dont let it ruin my hobby? Same thing with rarity and exclusivity in game no? Both are hobbies, both are how you spent your free time and both should or could have limited items not for the masses, for those who put in above and beyond effort?

[Krotoan]

I dunno, maybe I blur the lines and a I'm incompetent but when Lamborghini only makes 1000 of a special edition car I dont quit being a car enthusiast? I dont let it ruin my hobby? Same thing with rarity and exclusivity in game no? Both are hobbies, both are how you spent your free time and both should or could have limited items not for the masses, for those who put in above and beyond effort?

however unless someone destroys those Lamborghini's you can dream of someday owning one if you ever get the resources.

[Mistyregions]

It's not about "ruining your hobby," but rather, intentionally making something scarce just so that it seems to be more valuable. At least in reality, you can make the excuse that there are literally limited resources, so it's a blurry line. But in a video game? It's a stupid concept. Why only reward the first X people who achieve something when you can reward everyone who achieves it? It literally takes more effort to make it exclusive than inclusive.

Going back to my other example, yes, it actually could ruin someone's "raiding" hobby, if they could never get into a raid because of it being "exclusive" to the first 1000 players that clear it. If they don't get there fast enough, there's no point. And if that's one of the main reasons they play the game, they may just stop playing the game period, which loses customers.

Ultimately though, if you can't figure out why it's bad game design to only reward some players who earn the reward, then you're just too clueless to discuss anything with in the first place.

I dunno there are handbags that limited runs, and we haven't ran out of leather to make them so unreal life their are unlimited resoruces for most exclusive things , and people would be willing to buy them but the company forces limited runs to up the value and force scarcity and exclusivity, yet that doesn't ruin the hand bag enthusiasts, similar with guns, cars, jewelry etc. To say I'm clueless when it this happens on a daily basis is a stretch. Also what's up with the attacking and talking down to someone tone? Lastly what your looking for is a participation award, I was asking why having a winners award was looked down on. If you go into the Olympics not everyone can win gold. Some rewards should be for those people who perform at that level in the game correct? In your debate you would like everyone to get a participations award for just doing the content, not being the best, or the fastest at it correct?

[Arillyn]

I dunno there are handbags that limited runs, and we haven't ran out of leather to make them so unreal life their are unlimited resoruces for most exclusive things , and people would be willing to buy them but the company forces limited runs to up the value and force scarcity and exclusivity, yet that doesn't ruin the hand bag enthusiasts, similar with guns, cars, jewelry etc. To say I'm clueless when it this happens on a daily basis is a stretch. Also what's up with the attacking and talking down to someone tone? Lastly what your looking for is a participation award, I was asking why having a winners award was looked down on. If you go into the Olympics not everyone can win gold. Some rewards should be for those people who perform at that level in the game correct? In your debate you would like everyone to get a participations award for just doing the content, not being the best, or the fastest at it correct?

These rewards exist already in the Ultimate raids. Why does it need to be limited to the people who get there the fastest or only the top 100 (arbitrary number). People who join two years from now may want to test themselves on those Ultimate raids. If they win but started playing the game "too late" then they didn't earn them? They still did the content and earned them and the bragging rights that goes along with it.

[Mistyregions]

These rewards exist already in the Ultimate raids. Why does it need to be limited to the people who get there the fastest or only the top 100 (arbitrary number). People who join two years from now may want to test themselves on those Ultimate raids. If they win but started playing the game "too late" then they didn't earn them? They still did the content and earned them and the bragging rights that goes along with it.

I dunno, let's see if I can explain my train of thought for ultimates and if it was limited for a certain amount of time.

I joined 2 weeks after it ended, I would be bummed but I would definitely be ready for the next go around. I dunno that's the end of that thought lol.i could use what people experienced in that ultimate to get myself ready, that would be optimal use of my time.

I guess a real life equivalent is like, being upset you where born after the apple stocks took off, instead maybe you could learn about what to look for leading up to the next home run in stock investments? Probably not the best analogy but my point stands, sometimes, you just dont get to do do stuff and you should be ready for the next round of it. It takes alot of energy to be upset about it. I couldn't spend that energy even if it was financed.

[Arillyn]

I dunno, let's see if I can explain my train of thought for ultimates and if it was limited for a certain amount of time.

I joined 2 weeks after it ended, I would be bummed but I would definitely be ready for the next go around. I dunno that's the end of that thought lol.i could use what people experienced in that ultimate to get myself ready, that would be optimal use of my time.

Okay I understand where you are coming from on that score. But I personally don't think things like the Ultimates should be exclusive to time. They are already exclusive to ability. You can't cheese them and do them unsynced. So no matter when someone starts the game they have the same difficult fight that those who first fought them had. And end-game raiders already complain that they don't have enough content to do at end-game. Making something like that exclusive to a timeframe limits those end-game raiders even more. I don't think they should lose those raids in end-game rotation so to speak.

As for other exclusives I have had some that were then opened up to other people down the road. I don't begrudge those people that. I got them at the time and I was proud of them. I still am, others having gotten them later doesn't take that away. There are other things that I didn't get at the beginning and I got them later. My getting them doesn't take away the fact that others strove hard and got them first.

I don't count items/exclusives as something I'm proud of. It's those things or achievements that I did that make me proud. Some are in-game items or achievements. Some are self-made goals in the game that no one knows about but me. If I am understanding you correctly it's more about "earning" an achievement and where did those feels go. I've played MMOs for a very long time and I get that drive. There are things from past MMOs that I'm still proud of that me and my friends talk about. They were fun and amazing to accomplish. But in the end, for me, they are still video game achievements. Something I am proud of doing in the games I've played for sure. But I don't get upset when other's also get the same items or achievements as me nor do I really mind when they got them.

[Mistyregions]

Okay I understand where you are coming from on that score. But I personally don't think things like the Ultimates should be exclusive to time. They are already exclusive to ability. You can't cheese them and do them unsynced. So no matter when someone starts the game they have the same difficult fight that those who first fought them had. And end-game raiders already complain that they don't have enough content to do at end-game. Making something like that exclusive to a timeframe limits those end-game raiders even more. I don't think they should lose those raids in end-game rotation so to speak.

As for other exclusives I have had some that were then opened up to other people down the road. I don't begrudge those people that. I got them at the time and I was proud of them. I still am, others having gotten them later doesn't take that away. There are other things that I didn't get at the beginning and I got them later. My getting them doesn't take away the fact that others strove hard and got them first.

I don't count items/exclusives as something I'm proud of. It's those things or achievements that I did that make me proud. Some are in-game items or achievements. Some are self-made goals in the game that no one knows about but me. If I am understanding you correctly it's more about "earning" an achievement and where did those feels go. I've played MMOs for a very long time and I get that drive. There are things from past MMOs that I'm still proud of that me and my friends talk about. They were fun and amazing to accomplish. But in the end, for me, they are still video game achievements. Something I am proud of doing in the games I've played for sure. But I don't get upset when other's also get the same items or achievements as me nor do I really mind when they got them.

Fair point.

[Mistyregions]

My "tone" is necessary if I'm talking to someone who thinks forced scarcity and exclusivity is a good thing. And the keyword here is "forced." It's literally in your thread title. Olympic gold medals are not "forced" scarcity, since they're given out specifically to only the best performer of each event. By definition, only one person can be the best. But the way you worded your title and post makes it seem like you're supporting "rewards" that are easy to get, but limited by time or other such accessibility concerns (housing, garo stuff, limited events, etc). Rewards in general have started to lose meaning. Instead of forcing scarcity through artificial means, things should just be more difficult to achieve. Is 50m for a house too cheap? Make it cost 200m. And put a huge tax on it to where you have to keep paying to keep it. Or just make instanced housing.

It's sad the path that video games are going down now. The only thing that people should be proudly flaunting are achievements they have to break their back for. Not something that they logged in once at a very specific time for that anyone could have gotten. It's honestly upsetting. I'm not even a hardcore gamer myself, but I only respect skill, not luck.

Well your tone is unprofessional. Olympic medals definitely fall into forced scarcity, every year they are special one of kind made ones by the country they are held in and that only those participants will win. No one has the ability to win the same Olympic gold medal, by design, aka forced scarcity and exclusivity which makes it even more prestigious to have it no? Same in the game I would think? I am just simply pointing out that people in the game get hella bent about things they cant get because they aren't good enough, have the conviction to get, or the effort. Also you started off this message debating me, then agreeing with me at the end.

My whole post was simply to ask why people are upset they dont have access to certain things. It was inspired by a myriad of posts on here.