New Mentor requirements

[RyuSaarva]

Until 5.2, at which point everyone who has not requalified is kicked, per what was announced at 5.0 release. This discussion is really about what happens at release of 5.2, not what happens during 5.1.

kicked from mentor roulette and mentor crown not from novice network, if I am reading the latest post correctly.

[Bewhatever]

That's not what the announcement says.

kicked from mentor roulette and mentor crown not from novice network, if I am reading the latest post correctly.

I read the same post today. After thinking about both interpretations, I believe today's post applies to 5.1 only, and the previous statement made at 5.0 release (players would have 5.1 to recertify and be dropped at 5.2 release if not recertified at that point) is still operative.

I'd like to be wrong.

[Jojoya]

"Upsetting" is not the same as lost trust. Players were given a published set of criteria for remaining a mentor at 5.0 release. With 2 months to go before the "recertification", SE has now significantly changed that plan. This is an arbitrary change at a late stage. I met their stated requirements. Again, as I said, they moved the bar, and now, with less time, I have a new requirement.

Go back and read the section on Mentor changes in the 5.0 patch notes.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6712a499e97484

However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.

* Please note that mentors who do not do this during patch 5.1 will lose their certification in 5.2.

Everyone was warned back in June there were more changes to come in 5.1 for those who wanted to retain certification.

It was not an arbitrary change. Players have been upset with the quality of Mentors for quite some time and SE had noticed.

It's not a sudden one when we had 4 months advance notice that more changes would go into effect in 5.1 and Mentors would have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements.

Quit the game over the change if you want. It doesn't make sense when the change does not impact what you say you enjoy doing and how you do it.

I read the same post today. After thinking about both interpretations, I believe today's post applies to 5.1 only, and the previous statement made at 5.0 release (players would have 5.1 to recertify and be dropped at 5.2 release if not recertified at that point) is still operative.

I'd like to be wrong.

Today's post doesn't conflict with the 5.0 patch notes. They say the same thing - players will have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements implemented in 5.1 to maintain their Mentor certification.

Even if it did conflict, being more current the information in today's post would supercede the previous post.

Today's post only clarifies what the consequences will be for those who don't. They will lose their crown. They will lose access to the Mentor Roulette. They will retain access to the Novice Network but have a special icon denoting that the character is pending recertification.

I genuinely don't get all the fuss people are making. Is 1500 a large number? Sure. But it's also pretty unlikely that those who are truly helpful are going to be unable to meet that requirement by the time 5.2 is released next year. It will help weed out many of those who only "played nice" for a short time to get their 300 commendations for a crown and have since been jerks to other players, giving the Mentor system a bad rep.

[Galenini]

Go back and read the section on Mentor changes in the 5.0 patch notes.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6712a499e97484


Everyone was warned back in June there were more changes to come in 5.1 for those who wanted to retain certification.

It was not an arbitrary change. Players have been upset with the quality of Mentors for quite some time and SE had noticed.

It's not a sudden one when we had 4 months advance notice that more changes would go into effect in 5.1 and Mentors would have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements.

Quit the game over the change if you want. It doesn't make sense when the change does not impact what you say you enjoy doing and how you do it.

The previous published requirement was 300 commendations (as well as the others.)

The change has suddenly moved from 300 to 5 times that. (Again, also a barrier to entry for new players.)

I have given feedback to SE in a form that they can recognize within their business framework/focus. (This does not mean I have quit; it is one of 3 options.)

I stated two reasons why I play. The assumption that one supersedes the other is not correct. Pursuing the new requirements negates my ability to play with my FC. That absolutely impacts what I enjoy and how I do it. (Playing with people I know and have played with online for 20 years - all of which are family members. All.)

I am sorry if that does not make sense.

My feedback to SE still stands.


PS: I absolutely agree that those who only achieved 300 commendations and temporarily played nice to reap rewards and are not actually contributing to NN or, worse, are causing drama there (see previous post), need to stop negatively impacting the game and its community.

[LalaRu]

They should increase the duties done to 3000 or 2000.

There is not much need for it, because to get 1,500 comms it is very likely you done the 3,000 duties anyway. (and now waiting for the dude that replies he get 3 comms per duty every time...)

...(Again, also a barrier to entry for new players.)...

Working as intended. A sprout mentoring you? You kidding, right?

[Bewhatever]

Go back and read the section on Mentor changes in the 5.0 patch notes.
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...6712a499e97484


Everyone was warned back in June there were more changes to come in 5.1 for those who wanted to retain certification.

It was not an arbitrary change. Players have been upset with the quality of Mentors for quite some time and SE had noticed.

It's not a sudden one when we had 4 months advance notice that more changes would go into effect in 5.1 and Mentors would have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements.

Quit the game over the change if you want. It doesn't make sense when the change does not impact what you say you enjoy doing and how you do it.


Today's post doesn't conflict with the 5.0 patch notes. They say the same thing - players will have until 5.2 to meet the new requirements implemented in 5.1 to maintain their Mentor certification.

[snip for character count]

Agreed that the 5.0 patch notes say (cut and paste for accuracy):

Disciples of War and Magic Requirements
Must have completed the level 80 tank role quest.
Must have completed the level 80 healer role quest.
Must have completed at least one of the level 80 DPS role quests.
Must have completed at least 1,000 dungeons and trials.
Must have received at least 300 player commendations.


Players who obtained certification prior to the release of 5.0 but do not meet the new requirements will retain their current status for the duration of patch 5.0.

However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.
* Please note that mentors who do not do this during patch 5.1 will lose their certification in 5.2.

These statements are unambiguous. They state the requirements to become a mentor after 5.0. They state that earlier mentors are grandfathered in 5.0, but have to recertify to the new standard during 5.1 or will "lose their certification" in 5.2.

There is no ambiguity: 300 player commendations became 1500.

This is a significant change.

I personally am rather casual, do instances largely in guild groups, do so few PUG's that I would be lucky to get more than a commendation per week, meet the 300 commendation requirement based on PUGs from 3 and 4 years ago, and on current trajectory will hit 1500 commendations in about 2042, when I will be 85 years old. I'm not willing to exploit, nor to role play a naked young person, to farm commendations. I will not change my playstyle, my choice of playing with my guild, my appearance in game, or anything else, thank you. So this unexpected change will terminate my combat mentor status as of 5.2. Period.

If what you are saying is that people like me shouldn't be mentors...well...you are entitled to that belief.

[Bewhatever]

These statements are unambiguous. They state the requirements to become a mentor after 5.0. They state that earlier mentors are grandfathered in 5.0, but have to recertify to the new standard during 5.1 or will "lose their certification" in 5.2.

There is no ambiguity: 300 player commendations became 1500.

This is a significant change.

I personally am rather casual, do instances largely in guild groups, do so few PUG's that I would be lucky to get more than a commendation per week, meet the 300 commendation requirement based on PUGs from 3 and 4 years ago, and on current trajectory will hit 1500 commendations in about 2042, when I will be 85 years old. I'm not willing to exploit, nor to role play a naked young person, to farm commendations. I will not change my playstyle, my choice of playing with my guild, my appearance in game, or anything else, thank you. So this unexpected change will terminate my combat mentor status as of 5.2. Period.

If what you are saying is that people like me shouldn't be mentors...well...you are entitled to that belief.

i am also concerned that having only "elite" players as mentors, who play in content which requires them to exclude anyone who isn't on top of their rotation and gear, will set the kind of exclusive tone which poisoned WoW's culture in its early years, rather than FFXIV's culture (so far) of inclusion and helpfulness.

That's why I think this policy choice is a big deal.

incidentally, it is incorrect to say we were told more changes were coming in 5.1. We were told explicitly what the requirements were in the patch notes quoted above. There was no indication that these were subject to change, acknowledging that the devs always, always have the right to change anything they want anytime they want. But is is correct to say this late change, after expectations were clearly set publicly and in writing, is disconcerting and does cause a loss of trust in the developers by people like me who made plans and prioritized gameplay based on the previous statements.

Quite frankly, the quality problem with mentors on my server has, for the last year, been that about 1% of mentors monopolize chat with shitposting, egocentric chatter, and holding court when they are on, drowning out the ability of sprouts and returning players to get a word in edgewise to ask a question, much less have any other mentor who isn't part of spamming NN actually see the question before it scrolls off. In many cases, these aren't novices, but rather extremely experienced players who are simply bored and waiting for new content. My guess is increasing the commendations requirement will actually increase the % of ineffective but deeply knowledgeable mentors like those, and exclude many of those who are better suited to helping new players.

The "bad mentor" problem is about toxic people, not about skill or experience.

[Galenini]

Working as intended. A sprout mentoring you? You kidding, right?

Where, anywhere, did I say anything about a sprout mentoring? That's a confusing assumption.

SE has very carefully cultivated new players..... to the game..... which is business basics working as intended.

There are new players, sprouts, I have seen in chat actually stepping in and helping other sprouts with accurate, specific, helpful information and care.

THESE are the players that I believe will eventually be new mentors (after meeting required levels, etcetera). They already are helping, because that information and playing experiences at the level they are at is still fresh for them and they can appropriately apply it. I would welcome them to NN chat as part of the mentor team once they have gained levels and more game experience (just as the rest of us who mentor did.)

There are often jaded players who believe their opinions (often formed from unapplied theory-crafting) are actually fact and are relaying their opinions as "facts" to new players. And insist on it, making assumptions based totally on a raid mindset, without considering the context of the question being asked and who is asking it that often put the most erroneous answers into NN.

I would not just dismiss a sprout handing out info, just because they are a sprout, particularly those that go out of their way to help.

Those are the ones that are going to have a higher hurdle to overcome with that new arbitrarily high commendations number.

Specifically: barrier to entry (to being a mentor - a comment referencing a previous post.)

[Jojoya]

If what you are saying is that people like me shouldn't be mentors...well...you are entitled to that belief.

Mentors are supposed to be players who are helping other players have a good game experience.

You sound like someone who doesn't bother to help others based on what you wrote. You say you stick to your FC, rarely doing content with random players.

If that's the case, then correct - I don't believe you should not have mentor status because you're not interested in helping others.

Why do you think you deserve to keep mentor status when you aren't performing the role of a mentor? Just because you managed to reach 300 commendations so you were entitled to a crown next to your name?

incidentally, it is incorrect to say we were told more changes were coming in 5.1. We were told explicitly what the requirements were in the patch notes quoted above. There was no indication that these were subject to change, acknowledging that the devs always, always have the right to change anything they want anytime they want.

Directly from the 5.0 patch notes:

However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.

How is that not notice that more changes would be coming?

[Saintly]

Finally a change that attempts to fix this joke of a system.

Its still not enough to keep the clueless out tho, if anything its just a time-gate.
Those who want commends will do exactly what those who want likes do on the forums do, ass-kiss others and act as white knights.

I really hope that they add as requirement for someone to become/keep mentor, to have cleared all the mentor roulette content that was added till last patch. (Synced obviously.)
As an example, to be a mentor at 5.1 you have to clear all dung/trials (EX included)/raids that are available in 5.0.

Its hilarious how many "PvE mentors" the are currently that don't know/keep failing mechs or don't even know their class rotation and get carried by the rest full sprout party.

Anyway, i hope that they'll greatly increase requirement for craft/PvP mentors as well asap.
As for those who want to help others yet they cant obtain mentor status for whatever reason, nothing stop them helping without an icon.