Reimbursement for Lost Tomes due to Wrongful use of Kick

[Sabora_Makingai]

Ok Ive been lurking in this thread since creation so I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents now.

OP: Seems like your complaint is that you feel like your time and effort was wasted because the rewards for the completion of the dungeon were taken away from you due to being kicked. I can understand how that can be frustrating, I really do.

Reading front to back it really looks like the people in the thread were trying to get to the point of the topic that you want to discuss (reward reimbursement) but before they could weigh in on that part of your post, they needed background information on the situation present in the original post that lead to the kicking in the first place. I'm wanting to weigh in too but also need that information. Currently I see two scenarios (without being provided the information)

1) You were on the receiving end of what may be considered abusive behavior and when you pushed back, you were kicked from the dungeon. This would have left you only with whatever gear you won but nothing else. Now if this is the situation, then yes, lets have a conversation about reward reimbursement opportunities for people on the victim end of a wrongful vote kick.

However, because we dont know the conversation that lead to the kicking from this party. The people in this thread are falling into option 2

2) You mention in your post that getting kicked from parties happens frequently. the veterans in this forum (myself included) have all been kicked form parties before, but in the multiple years we have each played individually (2.0 launch myself) I have only been kicked from like 5 parties (mostly because I didn't know what I was doing and was really holding up the run). This is leading everyone to the assumption that you are the cause of your own issue for actions or words you are using in game and are placing you in the role of the abuser not the abused and because of that, are keeping with the topic of "YOU did this / YOU did that" and not getting to the point you want to talk about. After all, no one wants to side with the person in the wrong.

Try to rephrase some of your responses to help answer the question of "who is at fault" and I'm sure people will be able to move forward and get to the part of the topic you want to discuss.

To answer another part of this post "This is happening to thousands of players" I'm sure it is, but even in those situations I still need to know who is at fault.

To answer your question directly:
If you were the abuser: Nah fam, if you were a jerk, you get nothing.
If you were the abused: yeah I think giving GMs the ability to give tome rewards for someone who can PROVE they were wrongfully kicked from a duty due to an abuse of the vote kick system. (also only if they were on the last boss).

[Alklios]

Ok Ive been lurking in this thread since creation so I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents now.

OP: Seems like your complaint is that you feel like your time and effort was wasted because the rewards for the completion of the dungeon were taken away from you due to being kicked. I can understand how that can be frustrating, I really do.


Try to rephrase some of your responses to help answer the question of "who is at fault" and I'm sure people will be able to move forward and get to the part of the topic you want to discuss.

To answer another part of this post "This is happening to thousands of players" I'm sure it is, but even in those situations I still need to know who is at fault.

To answer your question directly:
If you were the abuser: Nah fam, if you were a jerk, you get nothing.
If you were the abused: yeah I think giving GMs the ability to give tome rewards for someone who can PROVE they were wrongfully kicked from a duty due to an abuse of the vote kick system. (also only if they were on the last boss).

Thanks for the organization there. IDC if I was wrong or write in that specific event and I apologized for even bringing it up, now being attacked for editting the post.

I want GMs to have this power. If I am a -insert profanity here-, they shouldn't reimburse me with anything (as mentioned almost half a dozen times here).
GMs will decide who gets and who does not get.

I'm not putting anymore energy into punting people off trying to make this about me. Thank you for addressing the thesis.

[Arcian]

According to you, this is a glaring, pervasive issue that Just Keeps Happening(TM).

In the four or so years I've been playing this game, I've only been kicked for dcing for an extended period of time.
Yes, including recently. Yes, including right now, after the dreaded Day of the Datacenter Split.

If you keep having problems with other people, maybe other people aren't the actual problem.

As for the concept itself: You are not inherently deserving of anything in this game except to play the game itself, just like everyone else here. That is the service that you are using. That is the service that you pay for. Not free tomestones for something you might have done if you didn't get in a fight with the rest of the party.
That isn't owed to anyone, up to and including you.

You've picked a really silly hill to die on, my dude.

[Noitems]

I readily welcome people to view the quotes as was mentioned already. The server callout means nothing for me being on Balmung, it's obviously under my character's picture

Once again idc on sympathy or not and it's starting to disturb me that's people's primary motivation apparently for posting anything here. I want rational debate over this concept and alternative suggestions breaking it down. So far it's only been minor points which I've already responded to by comparisons to other MMOs providing this service and recommending that FF14 do it to remain competitive.

Again, idk why all of you are concerned over sympathy and thumbs up. There's a problem, we need to find ways to abate it. You don't want to believe there's a problem? Compare old Q times to the mentioned data center b/f and after the server drops, reflecting how many people (and many of my friends) left the toxicity using their free server hop they didn't consider before.

Yet you still decided to edit your first post to take it completely out of your narrative. If it didn't bother you at all and you're neutral about it why not keep that part in?

Your cries for rational debate got thrown out the window the moment you told you us you got vote kicked but never explained why. That's a Part of the 5 W's for a reason, man. Hell even every post about negative GM interactions on here a person will know flat out why they're getting banned and will usually explain why to convey their message about why it was wrong. You decided to just say something on the lines of "We got into an argument" which is an vague as all hell statement which provokes more questions then answers. Not giving us an explanation is just showing you don't have confidence to even explain why you did get kicked, ergo making you look like an entitled clown.

Also don't even start bringing up a split argument about q times on Crystal or whatever the heck you're going on about. The only reason I brought Crystal up is that is was completely unneeded and made you look like you were treating the majority of the Data Center like they do it frequently, making your overall argument more biased and in turn less compelling. You're having enough trouble dealing with this reimbursement problem and adding another completely different debate to the mix is gonna make it even worse for you on a moral standpoint.

[Alklios]

According to you, this is a glaring, pervasive issue that Just Keeps Happening(TM).

In the four or so years I've been playing this game, I've only been kicked for dcing for an extended period of time.
Yes, including recently. Yes, including right now, after the dreaded Day of the Datacenter Split.

If you keep having problems with other people, maybe other people aren't the actual problem.

As for the concept itself: You are not inherently deserving of anything in this game except to play the game itself, just like everyone else here. That is the service that you are using. That is the service that you pay for. Not free tomestones for something you might have done if you didn't get in a fight with the rest of the party.

You've picked a really silly hill to die on, my dude.

Then you agree that a good compromise would be to at least keep tomes of bosses you at least clear as I suggested several times in posts. Thank you.

[HyoMinPark]

You can call a personal experience a rant if you want. Seeing no name callouts and no derogitory comments thrown probably weakens that argument.

Not at all. Ranting doesn’t have to involve either of these.

If you give up a thread title for a few sentences of an introduction of problem, the reading problem may lie with you.

Introductions are the most important part of a proposal. When you introduce your suggestion with nothing about how you were wronged, people begin to question your motives.

You seem very concerned about my reading skills, but I can assure you they are fine. In the event you missed it, I actually addressed your suggestion in Post #24 before any of this conversation even happened. I’ll post it here for your reading convenience.

There is no need to reimburse you when you can literally just queue up for the Roulette/duty again after being dismissed. You didn’t lose your reward—you just never earned it because you didn’t complete the duty. Tomes are not awarded until after the final boss of the dungeon is killed (even though the game tells you “You earn [x amount of y tomes]” mid-duty, they aren’t actually given to you until after you beat the dungeon).

If you feel like these individuals were abusing the Vote Dismiss feature, by all means, report them. But you cannot demand compensation when you can just requeue immediately afterwards and earn your tomes with a party that won’t kick you before the last boss. Yeah, it sucks that your time was wasted; I won’t deny that. But you can’t just demand free tomestones for it.

Let me make it known that I still stand by this. And I also still question your true motives behind this suggestion. I don’t think they were fueled by as much altruism as you’d like to portray the last few posts. There’s nothing wrong with making a selfish suggestion, but at least don’t pretend you aren’t being selfish when you make it.

[Alklios]

Yet you still decided to edit your first post to take it completely out of your narrative. If it didn't bother you at all and you're neutral about it why not keep that part in?

Your cries for rational debate got thrown out the window the moment you told you us you got vote kicked but never explained why. That's a Part of the 5 W's for a reason, man. Hell even every post about negative GM interactions on here a person will know flat out why they're getting banned and will usually explain why to convey their message about why it was wrong. You decided to just say something on the lines of "We got into an argument" which is an vague as all hell statement which provokes more questions then answers. Not giving us an explanation is just showing you don't have confidence to even explain why you did get kicked, ergo making you look like an entitled clown.

Also don't even start bringing up a split argument about q times on Crystal or whatever the heck you're going on about. The only reason I brought Crystal up is that is was completely unneeded and made you look like you were treating the majority of the Data Center like they do it frequently, making your overall argument more biased and in turn less compelling. You're having enough trouble dealing with this reimbursement problem and adding another completely different debate to the mix is gonna make it even worse for you on a moral standpoint.

I removed it because of the toxic fixation on it and feedback that it was the the majority thing people were willing to discuss, and apparently ignoring thread title. If folk want to leap around like apes banging on the same dead horse that is wanting source on my kick, they won't have it. It doesn't exist. The fact I'm being criticized for wanting to edit a post to make it more concise and relevant, further proves the circle jerk which you are a part of, good sir. What do you want -- conciseness, or possibly irrelevant information?

So do us a favor and keep to thread title.

[Alklios]

I will be waiting for the GM's decision because that is the only one that will matter because aside from myself they are the only one with full context of the situation. The input I am recieving here is counter productive and has grown hostile without reason. Have a good day.

[Arcian]

Then you agree that a good compromise would be to at least keep tomes of bosses you at least clear as I suggested several times in posts. Thank you.

No, I don't agree with you. They're awarded upon successful completion of the run, which, again, is something you might have done and didn't.

Don't twist my words. It's not your job to speak for me, and I deeply resent that you assume you have a right to.
That, independent of anything else in this thread, is entitled as all get-out. Dick move, bruv.

Also? People have addressed the thread title. We've addressed it multiple times, in fact. You just keep harping on about toxicity and how it's unfair and how we're just being mean.

If you're not willing to actually listen, that's on you.

[HyoMinPark]

I removed it because of the toxic fixation on it and feedback that it was the the majority thing people were willing to discuss, and apparently ignoring thread title. If folk want to leap around like apes banging on the same dead horse that is wanting source on my kick, they won't have it. It doesn't exist. The fact I'm being criticized for wanting to edit a post to make it more concise and relevant, further proves the circle jerk which you are a part of, good sir. What do you want -- conciseness, or possibly irrelevant information?

So do us a favor and keep to thread title.

When people address proposals, they look at the entirety of it. Not just the title. When people address anything, they read and analyze all of the content within. Are you seriously telling people to ignore your argument and agree to a statement with no additional information to go along with it? Because that’s not how things like this work...

As for waiting for a GM response—you’ll be waiting a while. Community managers rarely post in NA discussion threads.