How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Lodi]

Would you? I personally respect healers now more than ever, since I dont have the mental fortitude or left-over sanity points to spam (mostly) a single button when I play. /jk

Anyways, that just speaks volumes more about the "complexity" of healer rotation and less about tank dps. I think it was kinda stated by Yoshi and gang sometime around SB launch, that rotational complexity does not scale to damage done when they design things (see SAM and RDM... but really just SAM).

Pfft, no need to /jk it, I stopped playing a healer a month ago, it's every bit as boring as you described.

And yeah, I get that being a bit more complex doesn't necessarily make you stronger. But if tanks have four times more things to do to deal damage than healers, then they should be above them. I don't see why tanks and healers do about as much damage, despite one role having to put a LOT more thought into it than the other.

[Shurrikhan]

its clear from your responses your a dps fanatic. if you truly don't believe that tanks influence party outcome just as big if not bigger then healers then it shows how little you feel about your job.
positioning is kinda key element especially for mechanics and as for dps being able to stay in certain places for most of the time is rather important for dps classes especially those who cant cast during movements not to mention some dps actually do more damage based on positions.

so if this is what you think tanks are "a poor man dps" then samsta is right, go be a dps class it will probably make you happier.

You can be the most hardcore lovers of all aspects a la Tank and still come to similar lines of thought as what Nedkel has pointed out, simply due to how few of those tanking aspects exist in XIV anyways. Positioning is basically a non-mechanic. Enmity is a non-mechanic. Active mitigation has been relegated to hitting things nearly on CD with potential memorized delays. Healer-tank-specific interactions are now basically non-mechanics. So on and so forth.

You could maybe have made these points when ARR had just launched and tanking lent itself diversely and had huge potential for growth despite its weaker take on the role compared to many of its competitors (little to no AM outside of CDs, fewer positioning concerns except insofar as aiding melee positionals, etc., etc). Now, though? You'd need to make the point of how you'd actually bring those things into the game before you start calling people dps fanatics for, say, liking to optimize all that XIV tanks really have left to optimize: dps.

[CrimsonGunner]

You can be the most hardcore lovers of all aspects a la Tank and still come to similar lines of thought as what Nedkel has pointed out, simply due to how few of those tanking aspects exist in XIV anyways. Positioning is basically a non-mechanic. Enmity is a non-mechanic. Active mitigation has been relegated to hitting things nearly on CD with potential memorized delays. Healer-tank-specific interactions are now basically non-mechanics. So on and so forth.

You could maybe have made these points when ARR had just launched and tanking lent itself diversely and had huge potential for growth despite its weaker take on the role compared to many of its competitors (little to no AM outside of CDs, fewer positioning concerns except insofar as aiding melee positionals, etc., etc). Now, though? You'd need to make the point of how you'd actually bring those things into the game before you start calling people dps fanatics for, say, liking to optimize all that XIV tanks really have left to optimize: dps.

this isn't talking about optimizing their dps as tanks,its literally comparing tanks dps to the dps of the actuall dps classes and wanting to have the same amount as them.
this entire thread isn't how to optimize tank dps or compare one tank dps to another it straight out comparing 2 different role that have 2 different jobs and contributions to parties.
you literally sum up a tank role purely on dps when its simply not true and tank has other responsibilities in parties and ignore those completely.
the agro and positions maybe easy or non mechanic but they are important,they are significant and basically keep everyone alive, you straight out say that have no meaning just pure dps numbers matter when its completely not true and tanks in general have a much more important contribution to a party success then anything which is the party survival.

as i said before if it were between healers and tanks is somewhat reasonable since tanks dps > healers dps is the standard in mmo but comparing between the damage dealer classes and tanks and saying that the tanks, who role specialize in protecting party & taking agro while surviving nukes , not contribute to party only cause their dps numbers doesn't reach the levels of those who sole purpose is dps and the only thing important for party contribution is dps numbers doesn't strike you odd since survival is a basic huge contribution.

so yes when people start comparing dps between roles(not jobs but roles) which have different meaning with different contributions to a party and victory(aka dps & survival contribution), that's when it becomes obsessive.

[Samsta]

There's barely any positionning in a tank's role in this game right now. Bosses just reposition themselves with every mechanic when they're not outright just a giant static hitbox that takes half the arena (Leviathan, Titan Maximum for example, which are half the current raid tier). Aggro has become a complete non-issue and mitigation is just invuln most busters and press CDs on the rest. Protecting party members is just press one button on a 90sec recast when big damage is coming. Nothing feels engaging nor impactful. Everything is scripted and very easy to do. The only thing remaining is damage.

So now this is about what feels impactful and less about what actually is impactful? You don't think not dying is impactful? The mental gymnastics you guys are willing to make to justify your damage obsession is insane. Positioning is very relevant in 1 and half of the fights and mitigation both party and personal means not dying, how is that not impactful but suddenly bigger number on a parser that is going to be adjusted to bosse's health is?

[Rhais]

What would an increase in tank damage hurt though, why are all you people that come rushing into these threads to criticize people for wanting to do a bit more damage so against it? It would change nothing about the current tank gameplay that you claim should be the focus, it would just make tanks have an overall more meaningful contribution to the main goal of the party (and make solo content less painful).

Tanks are the most expendable role, anytime it's mechanically feasible a tank is dropped in favor of an extra dps, this has been true throughout the entire games life. I fail to see why it's such a problem that tank mains would like to have a greater impact on the overall goal of the party instead of just being there to handle a mechanic or two no one else can. No one is asking to do dps level dps, just to be a bit higher. There would be no negative effect for tanks to be dealing more damage relative to the other roles, and all the arguments against it seem to just boil down to "but you are a tank, not dps". So what?

[BarretOblivion]

So now this is about what feels impactful and less about what actually is impactful? You don't think not dying is impactful? The mental gymnastics you guys are willing to make to justify your damage obsession is insane. Positioning is very relevant in 1 and half of the fights and mitigation both party and personal means not dying, how is that not impactful but suddenly bigger number on a parser that is going to be adjusted to bosse's health is?

...
Have you tanked 1? 1 is keeping the boss in the center of the map where he repositions to almost every other mechanic. Important nothing, the only fight where positioning is important is 2 where you need to make sure you have room to dodge heads and not go off the map. Titan has 1 mechanic in phase 1 where positioning is somewhat important, entirety of phase 2 there is no positioning, and phase 3 is keep Titan in the middle which is brain dead easy as he doesn't move except for 1 time when the split tank busters come up.

[DeCiph]

I really think tanks need a little bit more damage. If i go fully geared into Titania EX train as Tank or DPS it will be two different scenarios. One where it's not noticed that my gear is great and one where everyone ask themself why titania is at 40% during add phase even tho we had lots of people dying. I would agree about damage buffs especially to Dark Knight and Warrior. Smaller ones - maybe another single ability.

[Freyyy]

So now this is about what feels impactful and less about what actually is impactful?

It has always been mostly about feeling impactful. Of course, as long as things such as tank busters and forced tank swaps exist, we will be forced to have 1 or 2 tanks in order to clear the content because we're the only jobs with the tools needed to deal with these. But, just like magic TBs are just there to make Dark Mind look good/useful, TBs, mechanics that force tank swaps and such are just there to make having 2 tanks necessary. Delete these and the role becomes completely useless. The only thing that a tank does more than a melee DPS is press defensive CDs at very scripted times in each encounter and voking once/twice in some fights. None of this feels impactful, and they only are because the devs purposely designed these to force tanks into raid groups. On the other hand, our jobs are much easier to play with a lot less complexity and our contribution to damage (the only thing that matters for the group once the minimum mitigation/healing thresholds are met) is very low compared to what it used to be before.

[Kabooa]

Delete these and the role becomes completely useless..

How much damage do you lose for a DPS taking 55k autos from Titan and healers being forced to baby sit that?

How much damage do DPS lose when the Boss is ping ponging around between those holding aggro?

How much damage do any of the casters / healers lose when those Autos interrupt their spells?

How much -death- happens when the Tank role mitigations aren't present during the traditional end-boss raid busters?

How many of the -other jobs- would be able to survive a raid buster -and auto attacks happening immediately after-?

Just removing tankbusters doesn't make the role worthless. The amount of damage they mitigate just from auto attacks alone would wipe out a raid without tanks in this "No tank buster" fantasy land.

Not to mention if we had no tankbusters, the auto attacks would likely be ramped up, or supplemented with a few instant-attacks of comparable strength.

[J-Reyno]

I wanted to see how other tank players felt about tank damage and I find it super interesting that a few people somehow felt threatened about the discussion and decided to run in here barking and biting about it. It's good to know that many others feel the same, though. What Freyyy said is right, the role just doesn't feel as impactful. 95% of your active gameplay when tanking is dealing damage, keeping your rotation up. The role already suffers with retention even with a new shiny job.

this isn't talking about optimizing their dps as tanks,its literally comparing tanks dps to the dps of the actuall dps classes and wanting to have the same amount as them.

I've refrained from addressing you in particular because you've been wrong from the start and clearly lacked comprehension, which is exhausting to deal with. But since you insist on regurgitating nonsense I'm going to point you to the original post where I state it's my opinion that tanks should do a solid 1k more damage. Do you know where the current damage values of the jobs are? No, you obviously don't. Because 1k more damage for tank jobs will NOT put them at the same damage values as dps. It's still not even close. I encourage you to check the damage values before you post again. I'm sure you won't but just know that you're clowning right now because you're participating in a conversation where you don't know what's going on.

What's more, I didn't even make a direct comparison between my damage on dps to tanks. I compared my damage between playing tanks and when I'm playing SCH in the op. You've either forgotten to read the topic before posting and made wild assumptions or you're trolling in an intentional effort to derail the conversation. Just know that I and others see what you're doing.