Changes to Bard I'd like to see in 5.1/overall

[Akiudo]

So we adjust things. Simply making a button that does potency 'do more potency' or 'press it more' just means it's going to be gone next expansion when the better "Do more potency" button shows up.

but you neither asked nor even mentioned adjustments, or rather the adjustment you proposed was "leave the timer as is and give it a dot refresh" , for a dot refresh to work at the same timing it has right now dots would need to be either longer or shorter.

So there's any chance for it to ever line up in a usefull way, making them just 5 seconds shorter would do nothing but mean you would need to refresh dots at 25/50 and the third time at 60 seconds flat as holding sidewinder for 15 seconds to get the max out of the refresh would still be useless.

On the other hand just making them 5 seconds longer would mean you would only need to refresh dots once per minute during an insanely long 10 second window between 25/35 seconds as the second refresh would be at a minute flat with sidewinder which would be usefull and indeed a buff, but at this point you may aswell make the dots passive effects.

[Samsta]

Bring foe's requiem back as a oGCD song with no cast time, change troubadour and other similar ranged skills to more unique support skills, and give each song a little different utility (1% more damage/2% crit rate/4% more direct hit rate) and now you have a bard that has it's rdps fixed and has it's identity back.

[Rika007]

-Snip-

While I understand where you're coming from, as a Bard main already very displeased with the class as it is this would make me consider dropping the class. I already have had to go through now 3 different iterations of Bard's rotation (4 if we are counting this new glorified Ranger version that no longer tries to snapshot buffs and has barely any utility at all as another rework to it's rotation, because it feels like one). The Stormblood song rotation has been by far my absolute favorite version of the job and I do not want to have to go through yet another top down redo of the job in another expansion. I would much rather see them just patch up the less fun parts of each song, maybe giving an AOE ability to use with Pitch Perfect stacks, much like how Rain of Death is the AOE counterpart with Bloodletter, and then just do something new with Army's Paeon.

But all of that is secondary to getting back the support kit and reworking Apex Arrow into a true capstone ability.

[Taranok]

WM as a stance wouldn't really work, considering that was it initial implementation, and it wasn't received that well. And Bards AoE is odd, it's like a wierd hybrid of AoE and ST, itrs not bad per SE, but only now is it starting to feel natural. But adding in an AoE Pitch Perfect, and adjusting when we get a few of the traits and skills would help a lot.

If you think WM as it currently exists wouldn't be received well because it was received poorly back in HW, then you fundamentally misunderstand exactly why WM was received poorly.

WM failed in HW because it turned Bards, a mobile, freeform class that could attack from range and not care about any boss mechanics hurting its DPS, and turned it into a bow wizard. It was almost entirely that the class got cast bars that people hated WM. So I fail to see why turning it into a stance wouldn't work, especially since the current iteration of WM is the best part of Bard's entire 80-90s long rotation.

While I understand where you're coming from, as a Bard main already very displeased with the class as it is this would make me consider dropping the class. I already have had to go through now 3 different iterations of Bard's rotation (4 if we are counting this new glorified Ranger version that no longer tries to snapshot buffs and has barely any utility at all as another rework to it's rotation, because it feels like one). The Stormblood song rotation has been by far my absolute favorite version of the job and I do not want to have to go through yet another top down redo of the job in another expansion. I would much rather see them just patch up the less fun parts of each song, maybe giving an AOE ability to use with Pitch Perfect stacks, much like how Rain of Death is the AOE counterpart with Bloodletter, and then just do something new with Army's Paeon.

But all of that is secondary to getting back the support kit and reworking Apex Arrow into a true capstone ability.

The big thing is mostly that, while SB is a better bard than HW, I find SB's iteration with the song mechanic to be a bit...redundant. Think about it, on a 30s rotation you're advancing an oGCD, rebuffing DoTs, and in SB you also had crit shot to reapply. Thematically it's just a lot of busiwork all at the same time, and when one part of the rotation is visibly better than the rest to the point where you wonder why it is even designed to have those weaker parts, it makes you wonder why you have it to begin with.

And if you think ShB massively changed Bard, oh boy, don't look at Machinist or Summoner's history, they've had huge changes each expansion as well. Though I do agree the class needs something major to happen with it since losing its support in addition to having 2 of its 3 stances being underwhelming for single target and aoe to be pretty annoying. Hell, even mage's ballad is just a poor man's wanderer's minuet (but feels great for aoe). I'm mostly just spitballing ideas, though actual bards might have other ideas for how to improve MB/AP for ST, and WM/AP for AoE.

[Eloah]

If you think WM as it currently exists wouldn't be received well because it was received poorly back in HW, then you fundamentally misunderstand exactly why WM was received poorly.

What!?

This has nothing to do with my comment at all.

[Taranok]

What!?

This has nothing to do with my comment at all.

Very first sentence: "WM as a stance wouldn't really work, considering that was it initial implementation, and it wasn't received that well. " Yes, it was your comment.

And the aoe rotation is fine, except that AoE doesn't interact with WM in a meaningful way, and AoE in AP feels like garbage to actually do compared to the glory that is Mage's Ballad in the aoe rotation. I basically never even used WM during aoe pulls while leveling because 1) it didn't meaningfully increase my aoe damage, and 2), right or wrong, I start with WM because the stance just feels so much better than MB and AP for single target in terms of capturing the best aspects of Bard.

[Rika007]

when one part of the rotation is visibly better than the rest to the point where you wonder why it is even designed to have those weaker parts, it makes you wonder why you have it to begin with.

It's mainly to give the job a cool down period and to differentiate the rotation slightly up. If you were to make WM a full time thing, then you would need to nerf Pitch Perfect, because during WM Bard hit's some pretty crazy level's of damage. The job was always designed in minds of being a burst heavy class and less of a consistent damage option. Making WM the norm would just make Bard more similar to Machinist. Sure you would have moments where your damage would spike higher, but it wouldn't be as high, because the job would have a much higher baseline damage. Some players don't like that, and Bard has always been the kind of job that draws in players who like that massive huge burst. You need to have jobs like that because not everyone wants the steady standard throughput that jobs like Black Mage, Samurai, Monk, Machinist, etc bring to the table. I'm willing to have my valley's of low damage for about 50 seconds of my rotation if it means the trade off of an insane rush for 30 seconds of it.

And oh I'm aware. I level all jobs to max at the start of each expansion (only 4 away from 80, then finally time for a bit of a break). I still feel 3.0 MCH was the best version of the job, but at least 5.0 has a true identity, even if this fast paced gunslinger style isn't workable on all levels of ping.

[Mahrze]

I don't main or play BRD to the best, but I do miss Wide Volley as my go to AoE. Would be nice if they brought back that and Grenado shot for MCH as Range AoE options

[Eloah]

Very first sentence: "WM as a stance wouldn't really work, considering that was it initial implementation, and it wasn't received that well. " Yes, it was your comment.

And the aoe rotation is fine, except that AoE doesn't interact with WM in a meaningful way, and AoE in AP feels like garbage to actually do compared to the glory that is Mage's Ballad in the aoe rotation. I basically never even used WM during aoe pulls while leveling because 1) it didn't meaningfully increase my aoe damage, and 2), right or wrong, I start with WM because the stance just feels so much better than MB and AP for single target in terms of capturing the best aspects of Bard.

Yes I know that is my comment. But your initial response claimed I "fundamentally" didnt comprehend why WM's initial implementation failed. I didnt even mention why it failed, I just stated it did. Plus you brought up it's current iteration, which I didnt even comment on.

If you think WM as it currently exists

And while it's not, going against what I said, why mention the AoE. You're basically just describing how you prefer to do your AoE rotation. Since like I said Bard's is a weird hybrid of AoE and ST. But ultimately you repeated what I said.

[UfoCoffee]

. I also would like BRD to shift to a 90s song rotation by making Paeon feel worthwhile to stay in for the full duration (and not just a lazy “Well we made RS and Barrage 90s”) kind of way.

Nah, i'm not a huge fan of 90s music myself :P

I thought i was the only one who felt BRD felt a bit...... strange. I stopped playing it as it just felt a bit clunky to me. I only get excited when i play WM, the other 2 songs are really boring. Whoopee i get to use bloodletter or ROD more, or whoopee i shoot slightly faster. Also it really annoys me that Apex is 15y range. Why? I don't get it.

Now Don't get me wrong, some classes AOE is boring and spammy but BRD is just clunky as hell. I absolutely hate nock arrow, again it's 15y and ROD is 25? So doting up enemies, singing mage's ballad, then spamming, urghhh clunky as hell. Maybe it's just me on the AOE thing and the range on Apex Arrow.