Changes to Bard I'd like to see in 5.1/overall

[Eloah]

We know that SE is reevaluating the ranged physical DPS role, and that there will be a few changes come 5.1. So here are the changes I hope to see to help Bard regain some of its former luster.

Hopeful 5.1 changes

Sidewinder/Shadowbite reduced to 30 seconds. For the potencies both provide, as well as, the constraints on those potencies, 60 seconds feels a bit much.

Apex Arrow, its gauge and how its charged need a rework. While the repertoire charge isnt so bad, since it can be linked to Empyreal Arrow, its potency needs to be normalized. I'd say give it a flat potency that costs a set amount, like 500 for 50. Or break it down into segments, like 250 for 25, 500 for 50, 750 for 75, like that.

All Songs need an increase in potency, or some form of utility back. The low potencies were offset by their utility, but since that was removed it just feel lackluster. Truthfully, I'd like to see an increased potency and utility.

Bard needs a charged action, which action I'm not sure. One could argue Bloodletter/Rain of Death because of ballad procs, but Straightshot has merit too.

Changes overall

Sidewinder at a lower level, pre 50, to offset Bard's weird down time. Giving it to us as an Archer skill would make sense.

Army's Paean's effect changed to something more useful, like a continuous Straightshot ready buff or something.

Another song pre 50 so that we dont have a down period.

An Encore ability, so that we can replay the song we were just playing.

That's all I can think of for now, but what are some other ideas to make bard feel better.

[SaitoHikari]

Initial thoughts while I’m still at work...

I see no real reason why Sidewinder and Shadowbite need to be tied together. Instead of the cool down being lowered, they should just be split up so that they can be used independently. This would make it easier to balance them individually instead of having to design them against the other.

I have a small list of what I think could help, and I haven’t really come up with anything else since.

EDIT: Fixed link, mobile site sucks.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...12#post5167612

[Rika007]

-snip-

While this doesn't address the biggest issue's most Bard player's have with the job right now, I gotta give props and agreement for actually bringing up Sidewinder/Shadowbite, because not that many people talk about it. It's a skill that feels pointless in our rotation with little to no impact for the amount of time it takes to have available (which can be said a lot about Bard's current kit right now). Putting it on a 30 second timer would go a long way to giving Bard back some power. 260 potency for an ability that you only use every minute while Empyreal arrow, one you use every 15 seconds is at 230 potency is ridiculous. If it stays on the same timer, then it needs to be MUCH more powerful, but I would much rather be able to use it more often and keep it's current potency.

That being said giving back some potencies and other QoL changes are just the tip of the ice berg that is Bard issues right now. My fear is just lowering some cool downs and upping potencies, along with a soft reworking of Apex Arrow is all we will get. None of that addresses the biggest number one problem with Bard, and that's it's loss of it's support identity. The Japanese player base said it best, calling Bard the "Karaoke singer who sings to themselves." The Job has lost a tremendous amount of it's identity, and getting that back will take time and some reversing of decisions made by the dev team. While I would love them to take a really hard look at BRD's support kit and make actual true mechanics around it like they did with Dancer, that's something you do over an expansion.

In the short term to address the issue I'd rather see them lower the cool down on Nature's Minne, Battle Voice and Troubadour (along with lowering it on Shield Samba and Tactician), giving us back Foe's Requiem, either in it's original state or reworked to be a non castable oGCD that doesn't rely on MP, and finally reworking Warden's Paean into an ability that actually give's a tangible benefit rather then one that is only useable in only the simplest of content. Wither that be offensive, giving a buff to a single person like Dragon Sight, or defensive and providing something like old school Palisade and/or Apocastasis.

[Kabooa]

Sidewinder/Shadowbite reduced to 30 seconds. For the potencies both provide, as well as, the constraints on those potencies, 60 seconds feels a bit much.

What if they stayed 60 seconds, but carried a DoT refresh property?

[Taranok]

Personally, I don't feel that the song rotation really adds much to the class. The issue is it makes the class very....uneven. As you say yourself, Army's Paeon just feels bad for example. While there's certainly things that might be done, ultimately the biggest issue can be best emphasized in how bad the rotation is in AoE. Wanderer's Minuet feels amazing ST, but useless AoE. Mage's Ballad is okay ST, but god-tier AoE, and Army's Paeon is very meh for both ST and AoE.

I personally don't feel like this song weaving mechanic, while cool for SB as something new, actually adds much to the class. In addition to making the leveling experience feel worse, the actual gameplay, in my express opinion, also just feels worse.

What I would do is change it such that Wanderer's Minuet is a stance, alongside Mage's Ballad. WM for ST, MB for AoE. Army's Paeon just flat out being removed because it doesn't feel good to begin with.

For bloodletter, you could consider upgrading it into sidewinder, and then buff rain of arrows into shadowbite, but make mage's ballad only buff shadowbite.

Bard is mostly about procs with a side of DoT maintenance. Army's doesn't really improve this gameplay in a way that feels good, mage's feels weird ST because you have to watch bloodletter like a hawk just to know when it procs, but WM feels good overall. And you will still get that weird 30 second cycle simply because of refreshing DoTs and having 80s cooldowns for burst damage.

Just my thoughts, as a non-bard main. Obviously though, if WM Becomes a stance, something needs to be done to make it so the sound effect isn't identical to the level 80 ability's thing, because that's also dumb.

[HyoMinPark]

They tried having WM as a stance in HW. Personally, I prefer all three songs being used in a pseudo rotation. Better than HW, where BRDs didn’t want to use Mage’s or Army’s that much due to their -10% damage for utility trade off. So I think the song rotation is fine: AP just needs to not feel as blah as it can feel.

Personally, I’d like to see Army’s Paeon feel a bit less bleh. I’ve never been a huge fan of the Haste mechanic, as it sort of felt mediocre to me. I wouldn’t mind seeing Paeon give us a way to bring in something like Flaming Arrow’s old DoT effect back. I also would like BRD to shift to a 90s song rotation by making Paeon feel worthwhile to stay in for the full duration (and not just a lazy “Well we made RS and Barrage 90s”) kind of way.

[Eloah]

What if they stayed 60 seconds, but carried a DoT refresh property?

No because at that point refreshing with the actual dot skills is better. It's more that the skills either need a potency boost or a CD reduction. They need to look at what they did for MCH and DNC since all of their CD/potencies make more sense.

snip

WM as a stance wouldn't really work, considering that was it initial implementation, and it wasn't received that well. And Bards AoE is odd, it's like a wierd hybrid of AoE and ST, itrs not bad per SE, but only now is it starting to feel natural. But adding in an AoE Pitch Perfect, and adjusting when we get a few of the traits and skills would help a lot.

[Kabooa]

No because at that point refreshing with the actual dot skills is better. It's more that the skills either need a potency boost or a CD reduction. They need to look at what they did for MCH and DNC since all of their CD/potencies make more sense.

The thing is, abilities that only serve to be pressed for potency tend to be the ones that go missing at the next expansion. You'd get the same effect by just increasing the initial hit of all GCD actions by like 10.

[Akiudo]

The thing is, abilities that only serve to be pressed for potency tend to be the ones that go missing at the next expansion. You'd get the same effect by just increasing the initial hit of all GCD actions by like 10.

the point is it simply wouldn't work. assume a normal fight, tank pulls, first dot, second dot, sidewinder, 30~ seconds later first iron jaws, 30~ seconds later second iron jaws, sidewinder gets ready in between 5 seconds and exactly now, you either press sidewinder and refresh your dots at 27+ seconds left or you hold it for 20+ seconds so it can effectively refresh your dots as you will have to use iron jaws 2 times before sidewinder gets ready even if you play perfectly as you can hardly bet on server ticks allowing you to refresh the dots after they actually fell of twice in a row, which would be the only way to get enough leeway so you can refresh them with a skill that actually gets ready the second they would fall of the second time in a literally perfect scenario.

[Kabooa]

the point is it simply wouldn't work. assume a normal fight, tank pulls, first dot, second dot, sidewinder, 30~ seconds later first iron jaws, 30~ seconds later second iron jaws, sidewinder gets ready in between 5 seconds and exactly now, you either press sidewinder and refresh your dots at 27+ seconds left or you hold it for 20+ seconds so it can effectively refresh your dots as you will have to use iron jaws 2 times before sidewinder gets ready even if you play perfectly as you can hardly bet on server ticks allowing you to refresh the dots after they actually fell of twice in a row, which would be the only way to get enough leeway so you can refresh them with a skill that actually gets ready the second they would fall of the second time in a literally perfect scenario.

So we adjust things. Simply making a button that does potency 'do more potency' or 'press it more' just means it's going to be gone next expansion when the better "Do more potency" button shows up.