NIN in 5.1

[Tobias_Azuryon]

If mudras were easier to deal with and pressing so many buttons resulted in more DPS than I'd be happy with where it's at, but unfortunately the class is literally fighting itself currently.

You have one side of the class which is the speedy high intensity DPS class meant to test your reaction timing and dealing with server ping.

And then you have the melee dps that's meant to debuff for other people.

Given that all of their utility from SB is gone now thanks to aggro management being nonexistent and trick attack being even less of a window than the TRUST npc version (lol) I think they have to just make a call on which they want NIN to be. Right now Monk has more easily accessible dps buff (that's also AOE) for physical attackers and a healer buff. The entire idea of basing rotations and everything around TRick Attack but then nerfing a class for Trick attack is good in theory, but then you look at Ninja's ridiculous kit compared to like Monk which really only has to hit 6 keys in sequence to easily out dps it.

It's not that NIN is "hard" so much as overly complicated and the problem comes from "What is the payoff for all this complication" and if it meant getting rid of RDPS or TA to get NIN where it should be (below DRG but higher than Monk unless NIN has the same nerfed utility MONK has) I'd welcome the change.

Right now I have to hit 30 buttons, open, hope that the server doesn't shit the bed in the middle of my rotation, stand in place to get another combo off which can easily go on a ridiculously long cooldown if an AOE hits, and that skill level is rewarded with "Okay" dps. The 5.1 patch did some good bandaid fixes but right now I'd say the identity of NIN is still at odds with the balancing they're trying to do for the classes.

tl;dr NIN needs to be hard to play but rewarding to pull off resulting in more dps (or more rdps or debuffs) or it needs to have its kit bolstered again around team buffs and/or utility. Right now the only reason it does such low damage is "Trick attack" and I think that's pretty shitty when classes like Monk and DRG have the kits they do.

[Tex_Mex]

tl;dr NIN needs to be hard to play but rewarding to pull off resulting in more dps (or more rdps or debuffs) or it needs to have its kit bolstered again around team buffs and/or utility. Right now the only reason it does such low damage is "Trick attack" and I think that's pretty shitty when classes like Monk and DRG have the kits they do.

I see your point, and I agree with a good portion of it, but the reason I'm scared is because I don't want the changes they implement to make the job easy. There are already enough easy jobs to play, and one of the main reasons I play NIN is because I enjoy the challenge it provides. As far as utility, I agree completely. Jobs like MNK which have huge personal DPS should not be given additional offensive utility. Oddly enough, it seems like SE is really trying to get away from DPS bringing additional utility to raids in ShB. Just look at BRD. It started as a DPS job that had a ton of support (it even had the healer LB early on) and its now just a ranger without a pet lol.

[UfoCoffee]

I play NIN as i like the challenge, but i enjoy rewarding and enjoyable challenges. Not badly designed ones.

[IruruCece]

If mudras were easier to deal with and pressing so many buttons resulted in more DPS than I'd be happy with where it's at, but unfortunately the class is literally fighting itself currently.

This whole post is good, in particular the bit about "complexity" and "reward."

I took ninja to 70 in Stormblood, and it wasn't the easiest job to learn. But it felt satisfying to finally "get" an opener down. Weaving in ninjutsu with my combos, even at my awkward skill level, felt like it was the way the job was meant to be. And when I was actually on top of things, it felt like I could at least keep pace with other heavy hitters. I was hardly the best at it, but it felt good to play. When I have time to play more I'd like to return to the job again, but it's disheartening to me to see the job in its current state.

Jobs that demand more out of a player should be able to post solid results when played well. If they struggle to do this, all that complexity means nothing. MMOs are about numbers in the end, and complexity (or lack thereof) are all in service to the numbers when it comes down to it.