Ready for Nier Dark Apocalypse?

[Vidu]

They have said you don't need to play Nier to enjoy the story, which may or may not be true, though given there has been talk of this being some kind of continuity of Nier I find that difficult to follow. My point is that from what I've seen of the Nier team they're not interested in making this fit in the setting we have. This bother me a lot as one of the main reasons I like 14 is for it's setting and plot.

Since you dont mention what excatly you're refering to in regards to what you've seen from the Nier team, I'll take a wild guess and consider the panel at the FanFest and Yoko Taros quote about how hes going to take down FFXIV with when his downfall in 2019 will begin.
...and if that guess is even remotely close to the truth, I have to ask: Dont you see how thats supposed to either be a joke or just provoke? Have you seen how Yoko Taro presents himself when it comes to things like this panel? The man obviously likes to enact himself as some sort of mad genuis type, so taking his words at face value is... questionable and something I would refrain from.

I dont see how a Nier-inspired setting cant fit into FFXIV - a secret base in/on the moon/somewhere in space? Check, had that since FFIV, had it again in FFXIV. Giant factory-ruins? Check, lets have a chat with allag! Androids? Well, we already have all those little mammets, some with more personality than you'd expect from a maschine - Gigi (goldsmith) and Gigi (aka Vivi) would like to have some words with you! Fighting robots/maschines? Thats basically the whole Alexander-raid... Menkind being (almost) dead and earth being destoryed? Yep, thats the First for you...

To me a Nier-crossover seems to fit better than the whole FFXV-stuff we got - riding a giant moose fits way better into Eorzea/FFXIV than the Regalia.
I wouldnt take Yoko Taros words at face value, thats just naive. And I would have faith in our dev- and lore-team to keep an eye on the addition of Nier.

[Renato]

You keep saying this but I haven't seen any reason to accept your conclusion. Sorry, but you're going to have to show me some evidence of that when they already said that you don't have to play Nier to enjoy Yorha.

Yoshida literally says something along the line of, "If you've finished the 5.0 MSQ, I strongly suggest buying Nier to/for better appreciate/better understanding" (roughly translated) during the most recent liveletter. I wish I could find the clip of it but there aren't many translated streams or logs from the LL and I don't feel like going through it trying to find it. Yoko Taro at the same time also mentions that he wanted to create a collaboration that fans of both worlds can enjoy but don't really need to have prior experience to enjoy.

I dont see how a Nier-inspired setting cant fit into FFXIV

I've always hated this argument. Not only just with Nier but with any game that people enjoy and want to for some reason want to see in FFXIV. FFXIV has a lot of different themes that could easily integrate with other games but just because it does isn't an invitation to just throw every damn character or game world into FFXIV. And that's ultimately my issue with this whole collaboration. The need to literally pull in a totally different game franchise into this game is highly unecessary. It's like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the 24-man raids aren't just fluff. They affect the rest of the game going forward in some way or form. If I wanted to play Nier, I'd play Nier. I personally don't care to see it in FFXIV.

And that's the difference between the canon and non-canon collabs. The non-canon ones could be dismissed, never to be seen if you don't want to do them and after the event is over, you can go back to your normal FFXIV activities. Ivalice is canon to the story and has already impacted the game. Viera exist, some of the events of FFT happened (although slightly altered)...Same thing will happen with Nier.

[linay]

Yoshida literally says something along the line of, "If you've finished the 5.0 MSQ, I strongly suggest buying Nier to/for better appreciate/better understanding" (roughly translated) during the most recent liveletter. I wish I could find the clip of it but there aren't many translated streams or logs from the LL and I don't feel like going through it trying to find it. Yoko Tara at the same time also mentions that he wanted to create a collaboration that fans of both worlds can enjoy but don't really need to have prior experience to enjoy.


I've always hated this argument. Not only just with Nier but with any game that people enjoy and want to for some reason want to see in FFXIV. FFXIV has a lot of different themes that could easily integrate with other games but just because it does isn't an invitation to just throw every damn character or game world into FFXIV. And that's ultimately my issue with this whole collaboration. The need to literally pull in a totally different game franchise into this game is highly unecessary. It's like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the 24-man raids aren't just fluff. They affect the rest of the game going forward in some way or form. If I wanted to play Nier, I'd play Nier. I personally don't care to see it in FFXIV.

And that's the difference between the canon and non-canon collabs. The non-canon ones could be dismissed, never to be seen if you don't want to do them and after the event is over, you can go back to your normal FFXIV activities. Ivalice is canon to the story and has already impacted the game. Viera exist, some of the events of FFT happened (although slightly altered)...Same thing will happen with Nier.

Suggesting to play Nier is no different than with the Ivalice raid. You can get more enjoyment/understanding out of it if you've played Tactics/XII, but the raid itself is a FFXIV content and does not require you to play Tactics/XII. And it's still as canon to FFXIV as the Crystal Tower and Void Ark series.

[Vidu]

Yoshida literally says something along the line of, "If you've finished the 5.0 MSQ, I strongly suggest buying Nier to/for better appreciate/better understanding" (roughly translated) during the most recent liveletter. I wish I could find the clip of it but there aren't many translated streams or logs from the LL and I don't feel like going through it trying to find it. Yoko Tara at the same time also mentions that he wanted to create a collaboration that fans of both worlds can enjoy but don't really need to have prior experience to enjoy.

I've always hated this argument. Not only just with Nier but with any game that people enjoy and want to for some reason want to see in FFXIV. FFXIV has a lot of different themes that could easily integrate with other games but just because it does isn't an invitation to just throw every damn character or game world into FFXIV. And that's ultimately my issue with this whole collaboration. The need to literally pull in a totally different game franchise into this game is highly unecessary. It's like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the 24-man raids aren't just fluff. They affect the rest of the game going forward in some way or form. If I wanted to play Nier, I'd play Nier. I personally don't care to see it in FFXIV.

And that's the difference between the canon and non-canon collabs. The non-canon ones could be dismissed, never to be seen if you don't want to do them and after the event is over, you can go back to your normal FFXIV activities. Ivalice is canon to the story and has already impacted the game. Viera exist, some of the events of FFT happened (although slightly altered)...Same thing will happen with Nier.

I'm making this argument because to me the question is: "If you didnt know this was a collaboration - would it feel off and would you notice that it doesnt orginate in this game?"

The short-term-non-canon ones like Yokai, Dragonquest or FFXV clearly fall into that category. I could show a screenshot of my character in the Yokai-mount to my mother and she'd ask "That doesnt look right?"

On the other hand you have the content thats canon now - but by making it canon its blending into the world of FFXIV and if you didnt know that its heavly drawing from other sources, you wouldnt notice.
The Crystal Tower raid is basically FFIII, yet its being integrated into the lore of this game in a way that fits.
If you havent played the Ivalice-saga this country of "Dalmasca" seems just as believeable to exist than the kingdom of "Doma" (FFVI refrence btw). And if Au Ra can suddenly appear and you discover a race of talking catfish you'd never heard off before, why cant the same be true for rabit-people?

That why I was pointing out that events in Nier and FFXIV fit well enough together to create a story and lore that will allow them to add Nier-inspired content into the game. A lot of the things that are happening in Nier arent impossible within the already existing lore. They dont have to terribly bend the rules to give us androids or moonbases, we got all of that by ourselves already.

And in regards to "having" to play Nier to get a better understanding of the story... even within the game itself you'll get a better understanding of events if you do optional content like sidequests or reading lorebooks.

I'm sorry if people are upset about this, because I can honestly not understand why - and I understand the doomsayers who claim that the dev-team, who just delivered a stunning expansion with lots of original content, are simply out of ideas and are turning to other sources because of that.
If you're concerned that they're borrowing to much from other games with the 24-man-raids you should have dropped the game with 2.1 and the release of FFIIIs Crystal Tower.

[SieyaM]

I never really played Nier, and I don't really have the desire to. So sadly on this set of 24 man I am not all that enthused, but guess you can't win them all.

[TaleraRistain]

If you're concerned that they're borrowing to much from other games with the 24-man-raids you should have dropped the game with 2.1 and the release of FFIIIs Crystal Tower.

III is part of the Final Fantasy series. There's nothing unusual if they bring in elements from other games in the same series. That's what easter eggs are all about. It's bringing in a completely unreleated game series and giving it a place of prominence and higher billing than other crossovers within XIV's own series that's the issue.

[Kobalos]

Not played any of the Neir games but this raid looks good

[Vidu]

III is part of the Final Fantasy series. There's nothing unusual if they bring in elements from other games in the same series. That's what easter eggs are all about. It's bringing in a completely unreleated game series and giving it a place of prominence and higher billing than other crossovers within XIV's own series that's the issue.

I would hardly call the Crystal Tower-series an "easter egg"...

And its not that I dont understand what you mean, but if people complain about Nier on the grounds of "We dont get orginal FFXIV content anymore!" the Crystal Tower borrows heavly from a game that isnt FFXIV aswell. It doesnt matter that this game is called "Final Fantasy" too and part of the series, given the series special nature: The games within the series arent connected, except for the occassional name-drop (Cid, Boggs, Wedge) and certain creatures being repeated. It has been made clear again and again that all FF-worlds are completly unconnected - FFXIVs Ivalice is not FFXIIs Ivalice, both worlds just happen to have a land called "Ivalice" now, with a city called "Rabanstre". But its not like we found the FFXII-part of Eorzea, just how the Crystal Tower isnt was left from the FFIII-world.
If you look at the series you'll also notice that the games have extremly different settings from each other and from FFXIV - just because they're all part of the Final Fantasy series that has the whole "You can play any of those games you want, you dont need the rest to understand anything"- thing as a main-feature doesnt mean that they fit better into FFXIV than any other game.
I'll say it again: I consider Nier a better fit than FFXV and the Regalia we got.

Long story short: Other FFs are just as related and just as original to FFXIV than Nier is. The connection between FFIII and FXIV didnt go far beyond them sharing a name until the Crystal Tower was introduced to FFXIV.
And as long as that introduction is done in a way that it doesnt scream "I dont belong here!" in your face and everyone - even the people who didnt play the game(s) in question - can understand whats going on, I dont have an issue with collaborations with other games. All I ask is that they blend in - and I can see how Nier-inspired content could blend in

[Razard]

III is part of the Final Fantasy series. There's nothing unusual if they bring in elements from other games in the same series. That's what easter eggs are all about. It's bringing in a completely unreleated game series and giving it a place of prominence and higher billing than other crossovers within XIV's own series that's the issue.

Still a Square Enix property. I’ll have to remember this the next time someone asks for a Chrono Trigger/ Star Ocean/ Valkyrie Profile/ Bravely Default/ Front Mission/ Octopath Traveler (etc etc) event/raid/glams/body pillow?

Or are those different because reasons?

[Rasikko]

wonder how many people dont even care about neir and just wanted 2b/p and 9s gear to thirst over

While it looks nice, I fully expect neither to be dyable, which makes it unworthy.

Sometime the content that appears to be the least related to the game may end up having the most relative lore for the game.

Until we get the full Raid storyline in 5.5, we won't really know the importance of Nier Raid to the FF14 world.

For all we know it could provide the lore on how the Shards work and develop due to their separation from Source in a more detailed way or maybe something else that we cannot predict yet.

Gonna burst SE's bubble: This is not going to make me go out and buy the games - the only reason they do things like this.