Ready for Nier Dark Apocalypse?

[Renato]

You keep saying this but I haven't seen any reason to accept your conclusion. Sorry, but you're going to have to show me some evidence of that when they already said that you don't have to play Nier to enjoy Yorha.

Yoshida literally says something along the line of, "If you've finished the 5.0 MSQ, I strongly suggest buying Nier to/for better appreciate/better understanding" (roughly translated) during the most recent liveletter. I wish I could find the clip of it but there aren't many translated streams or logs from the LL and I don't feel like going through it trying to find it. Yoko Taro at the same time also mentions that he wanted to create a collaboration that fans of both worlds can enjoy but don't really need to have prior experience to enjoy.

I dont see how a Nier-inspired setting cant fit into FFXIV

I've always hated this argument. Not only just with Nier but with any game that people enjoy and want to for some reason want to see in FFXIV. FFXIV has a lot of different themes that could easily integrate with other games but just because it does isn't an invitation to just throw every damn character or game world into FFXIV. And that's ultimately my issue with this whole collaboration. The need to literally pull in a totally different game franchise into this game is highly unecessary. It's like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the 24-man raids aren't just fluff. They affect the rest of the game going forward in some way or form. If I wanted to play Nier, I'd play Nier. I personally don't care to see it in FFXIV.

And that's the difference between the canon and non-canon collabs. The non-canon ones could be dismissed, never to be seen if you don't want to do them and after the event is over, you can go back to your normal FFXIV activities. Ivalice is canon to the story and has already impacted the game. Viera exist, some of the events of FFT happened (although slightly altered)...Same thing will happen with Nier.

[linay]

Yoshida literally says something along the line of, "If you've finished the 5.0 MSQ, I strongly suggest buying Nier to/for better appreciate/better understanding" (roughly translated) during the most recent liveletter. I wish I could find the clip of it but there aren't many translated streams or logs from the LL and I don't feel like going through it trying to find it. Yoko Tara at the same time also mentions that he wanted to create a collaboration that fans of both worlds can enjoy but don't really need to have prior experience to enjoy.


I've always hated this argument. Not only just with Nier but with any game that people enjoy and want to for some reason want to see in FFXIV. FFXIV has a lot of different themes that could easily integrate with other games but just because it does isn't an invitation to just throw every damn character or game world into FFXIV. And that's ultimately my issue with this whole collaboration. The need to literally pull in a totally different game franchise into this game is highly unecessary. It's like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the 24-man raids aren't just fluff. They affect the rest of the game going forward in some way or form. If I wanted to play Nier, I'd play Nier. I personally don't care to see it in FFXIV.

And that's the difference between the canon and non-canon collabs. The non-canon ones could be dismissed, never to be seen if you don't want to do them and after the event is over, you can go back to your normal FFXIV activities. Ivalice is canon to the story and has already impacted the game. Viera exist, some of the events of FFT happened (although slightly altered)...Same thing will happen with Nier.

Suggesting to play Nier is no different than with the Ivalice raid. You can get more enjoyment/understanding out of it if you've played Tactics/XII, but the raid itself is a FFXIV content and does not require you to play Tactics/XII. And it's still as canon to FFXIV as the Crystal Tower and Void Ark series.

[Vidu]

Yoshida literally says something along the line of, "If you've finished the 5.0 MSQ, I strongly suggest buying Nier to/for better appreciate/better understanding" (roughly translated) during the most recent liveletter. I wish I could find the clip of it but there aren't many translated streams or logs from the LL and I don't feel like going through it trying to find it. Yoko Tara at the same time also mentions that he wanted to create a collaboration that fans of both worlds can enjoy but don't really need to have prior experience to enjoy.

I've always hated this argument. Not only just with Nier but with any game that people enjoy and want to for some reason want to see in FFXIV. FFXIV has a lot of different themes that could easily integrate with other games but just because it does isn't an invitation to just throw every damn character or game world into FFXIV. And that's ultimately my issue with this whole collaboration. The need to literally pull in a totally different game franchise into this game is highly unecessary. It's like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the 24-man raids aren't just fluff. They affect the rest of the game going forward in some way or form. If I wanted to play Nier, I'd play Nier. I personally don't care to see it in FFXIV.

And that's the difference between the canon and non-canon collabs. The non-canon ones could be dismissed, never to be seen if you don't want to do them and after the event is over, you can go back to your normal FFXIV activities. Ivalice is canon to the story and has already impacted the game. Viera exist, some of the events of FFT happened (although slightly altered)...Same thing will happen with Nier.

I'm making this argument because to me the question is: "If you didnt know this was a collaboration - would it feel off and would you notice that it doesnt orginate in this game?"

The short-term-non-canon ones like Yokai, Dragonquest or FFXV clearly fall into that category. I could show a screenshot of my character in the Yokai-mount to my mother and she'd ask "That doesnt look right?"

On the other hand you have the content thats canon now - but by making it canon its blending into the world of FFXIV and if you didnt know that its heavly drawing from other sources, you wouldnt notice.
The Crystal Tower raid is basically FFIII, yet its being integrated into the lore of this game in a way that fits.
If you havent played the Ivalice-saga this country of "Dalmasca" seems just as believeable to exist than the kingdom of "Doma" (FFVI refrence btw). And if Au Ra can suddenly appear and you discover a race of talking catfish you'd never heard off before, why cant the same be true for rabit-people?

That why I was pointing out that events in Nier and FFXIV fit well enough together to create a story and lore that will allow them to add Nier-inspired content into the game. A lot of the things that are happening in Nier arent impossible within the already existing lore. They dont have to terribly bend the rules to give us androids or moonbases, we got all of that by ourselves already.

And in regards to "having" to play Nier to get a better understanding of the story... even within the game itself you'll get a better understanding of events if you do optional content like sidequests or reading lorebooks.

I'm sorry if people are upset about this, because I can honestly not understand why - and I understand the doomsayers who claim that the dev-team, who just delivered a stunning expansion with lots of original content, are simply out of ideas and are turning to other sources because of that.
If you're concerned that they're borrowing to much from other games with the 24-man-raids you should have dropped the game with 2.1 and the release of FFIIIs Crystal Tower.

[TaleraRistain]

If you're concerned that they're borrowing to much from other games with the 24-man-raids you should have dropped the game with 2.1 and the release of FFIIIs Crystal Tower.

III is part of the Final Fantasy series. There's nothing unusual if they bring in elements from other games in the same series. That's what easter eggs are all about. It's bringing in a completely unreleated game series and giving it a place of prominence and higher billing than other crossovers within XIV's own series that's the issue.

[Vidu]

III is part of the Final Fantasy series. There's nothing unusual if they bring in elements from other games in the same series. That's what easter eggs are all about. It's bringing in a completely unreleated game series and giving it a place of prominence and higher billing than other crossovers within XIV's own series that's the issue.

I would hardly call the Crystal Tower-series an "easter egg"...

And its not that I dont understand what you mean, but if people complain about Nier on the grounds of "We dont get orginal FFXIV content anymore!" the Crystal Tower borrows heavly from a game that isnt FFXIV aswell. It doesnt matter that this game is called "Final Fantasy" too and part of the series, given the series special nature: The games within the series arent connected, except for the occassional name-drop (Cid, Boggs, Wedge) and certain creatures being repeated. It has been made clear again and again that all FF-worlds are completly unconnected - FFXIVs Ivalice is not FFXIIs Ivalice, both worlds just happen to have a land called "Ivalice" now, with a city called "Rabanstre". But its not like we found the FFXII-part of Eorzea, just how the Crystal Tower isnt was left from the FFIII-world.
If you look at the series you'll also notice that the games have extremly different settings from each other and from FFXIV - just because they're all part of the Final Fantasy series that has the whole "You can play any of those games you want, you dont need the rest to understand anything"- thing as a main-feature doesnt mean that they fit better into FFXIV than any other game.
I'll say it again: I consider Nier a better fit than FFXV and the Regalia we got.

Long story short: Other FFs are just as related and just as original to FFXIV than Nier is. The connection between FFIII and FXIV didnt go far beyond them sharing a name until the Crystal Tower was introduced to FFXIV.
And as long as that introduction is done in a way that it doesnt scream "I dont belong here!" in your face and everyone - even the people who didnt play the game(s) in question - can understand whats going on, I dont have an issue with collaborations with other games. All I ask is that they blend in - and I can see how Nier-inspired content could blend in