Tales from the Shadows

[Mansion]

Yeah, but weren't the slots for them always there on the site for the previous sets? I remember Stormblood's slots all being there from teh start, at least. I want to say Dragonsong War had all 8 there too. Tales from teh Calamity didn't, but then its whole ui is a different format anyway.

They could still pull out a "Tales of the XXX" with 4 stories, having to do perhaps with MSQ coming in the upcoming patches... Especially if they keep the pattern of "big things coming up in X.3 patch!"

[Alleo]

This story is really something that gets my mind working.

It seemingly does confirm that there were only Ancient ones living at that time which was hinted already ingame but its nice to know it for sure now. Which of course begs the question on when the different races came to be and why? Did they came to be after Zodiark changed the laws of nature thus souls were suddenly reborn in different bodies? But that does not make much sense to me because why should two Ancients suddenly produce something else? Or did some Ancient grew bored of their looks and just builded new bodies for themselves and inserted their souls into that? Maybe the accident with Phoenix even gave them the idea?

It also seemingly confirms that they truly wanted to sacrifice sapient life because only those with souls seems to count as being truly alive and not those things they created. And if not a whole mass of new souls formed than this would mean that they were ready to sacrifice Ancient ones for that. (More to that later)

And it was not 100% a paradise either. Having such a soul who is filled with such negative emotions latch itself to the phoenix shows that bad stuff must have happened too. Maybe just not that much in Amaurot and maybe not on the scale of our conflicts like war. Also wonder if maybe they were not able to get sick? Since they made the point that Solus son died to sickness.

In my first post about this story I asked myself on why they would not accept the sacrifice and I have found two possibilites after thinking about it.

First idea: Zodiark might have gotten his own soul through the sacrifice of these countless of souls. Souls that have just witnessed the most horrible thing they ever had. We know from the phoenix that this can influence how the vessel acts. Maybe being formed from that much tragedy and negative emotions made him more dark himself. He was created, got a powerful soul thanks to the sacrifice and later got even more powerful with more souls..and suddenly that stops because the conflict is done...but he wants more of that. So he tells his tempered followers that he would give the sacrificed people back in exchange for more sacrifice. Of course he could have been telling the truth if he would get more souls for each soul for example. Or he could have lied.

The second idea takes Zodiark out of this. First I thought that the word "underworld" could mean that they had some sort of afterlife...but if you are nearly immortal and someone dies..wouldnt you still be quite sad about this because you might never see them if you never die yourself? Also the story seems to go more with rebirth and reincarnation so an afterlife should have been a bit strange. A lifestream where the soul is changed and the memories are taken away also does not make sense since they are seemingly quite positive about it. Also if that was the case then death itself would have been something common and known to them and should make them accepting of the sacrifice..

But what if their lifestream was not like that? What if the person died but was reborn again with the same memories as before? Then people would imo not fear death. It would just be like a long sleep and when you wake up from it you have your loved ones still in reach and can make new friends along the way. The catastrophe was bad for them because to be reborn again you kinda needed people alive for that. (And it would explain why they did not do much before it reached their city...who cares about those others..they can just be reborn again) So a part of Amaurot sacrificed themselvs to save their race but in the aftermath, when they had time to think about it, to understand whats happen, they suddenly realize that these people will be lost forever. That they are truly death. They wont be reborn, they wont see them again..so for the first time in their lifes they have come face to face with true death and could not deal with it. Maybe Hythlo was among them too. And then they thought that since they had stopped the catastrophe, they had the rights to truly play gods and to use other souls of ancients later on to get their friends and loved ones back. And of course the group that later will summon Hydealyn and some other Amaurots might have not liked that idea. Did not believe that they have the right to make others feel the pain and sorrow. Thus the conflict was born that would change everything.

This would at least in some way explain why they acted that way. Maybe it was both ideas in one. Zodiark saw them with sorrow and pain and suddenly promised that he could give their souls back in exchange for more. And because they were tempered and in pain they might have believed it (because I doubt that this would be possible) while others saw through that and wanted to stop these senseless sacrifices.

Maybe Hydealyn was even given the power over the lifestream with the wish to take away the memories of the people so that they will be reborn without the burden of the past. Because all is great if you die without regrets and had a good life..but being reborn after dieing in a horrible way? Having to see that memories in your minds again and again? Couldnt that even lead to the creation magic being out of control again? Maybe they thought it would be better to start anew.

[Ultimatecalibur]

It seemingly does confirm that there were only Ancient ones living at that time which was hinted already ingame but its nice to know it for sure now. Which of course begs the question on when the different races came to be and why? Did they came to be after Zodiark changed the laws of nature thus souls were suddenly reborn in different bodies? But that does not make much sense to me because why should two Ancients suddenly produce something else? Or did some Ancient grew bored of their looks and just builded new bodies for themselves and inserted their souls into that? Maybe the accident with Phoenix even gave them the idea?

What is implied is that the Ancients' race was sundered by Hydaelyn into the various races we know of. Nothing says that Hydaelyn can only sunder objects. she could very well be able to sunder concepts.

[Alleluia]

What is implied is that the Ancients' race was sundered by Hydaelyn into the various races we know of. Nothing says that Hydaelyn can only sunder objects. she could very well be able to sunder concepts.

I don't think that's what's implied, though. The association between the races and the Ancients seems to be that the ancients all got sundered in to soul fragments and their soul fragments are being reborn in the sentient races. If the theory that the Echo is something tied to having an Ancient soul is true, then that would mean not every sentient is an Ancient soul fragment, since not all people have the echo. Which means they exist as species, independent of having an ancient soul or not. Which means they're not splinter branches off the Ancients, cus it makes no sense that only some of the ancients' descendants would have ancient souls, cus where'd the souls for the others come from in that scenario?

I think its much more likely the current sentient species were what Zodiark created when he "refreshed the life of the star" via the 2nd sacrifice. And these sentient beings were part of what was going to be sacrificed in the 3rd round, and that's what was morally reprehensible enough for some of the non-tempered Ancients to summon Hydaelyn as a countermove. It also explains why they're present on all worlds since Hydaelyn would have made copies of them when she copied everything else.

[Quor]

I'm of the mind that it's one of a few explanations for the races of the world as we know them:

1 - natural evolutionary drift. If we take Emet in the MSQ at his word, he's lived "a thousand thousand" of our lifetimes. Maybe he was exaggerating (he is Emet after all) but assuming he wasn't using hyperbole, and assuming an average age of 50 years among the "civilized" races of the world, that's 50x1000x1000=50,000,000. 50 million years of existence. Even just assuming an average age of 30 that's still 30 million years. That's a long time for life to develop. Whether it developed "naturally" from primordial muck or was a result of creations made by the Ancients that now had souls of their own and were living free on the world is a point of debate, but the fact remains that the modern races possibly had the time to evolve normally from whatever ancestors came before them.

2 - full-on creation magic at work. The modern races were made as they are now via the Ancients themselves. The races may have been seeded as a means of "farming" them for the eventual sacrifice to Zodiark, given enough sapience to be worthy of a soul but without the "completion" that came with being an Ancient. The racial variation that exists could have been practical (Hrothgar/Ronso are larger and furry, more adapted to cold climates than the comparatively smaller Lalafell/Dwarves) or it could have been something of an aesthetic thing; after all, if you're going to make an entire race of sapient beings as a venerated Ancient master of creation magic, you may as well go all the way and make them physiologically distinct. What's the point of doing a good job when you can also do a good job and create beauty in the process? It may as well have been a combination of the two, i.e. giving racial distinction to keep things different and interesting while also addressing the environments that each race was expected to inhabit. The small stature of the Plainsfolk and Dunesfolk serve as cover against larger predators and help mitigate the effects of various forms of harsh weather. Small height means less materials needed for clothing or housing to protect from the elements as well as an easier time of hiding in small gullys and valleys to avoid being eaten.

3 - Zodiark did it. As Alleluia noted, when he "refreshed" the life of the star, the other sapient races came into being. The way they are now may be a result of Zodiark making them this way, or else it may just be natural evolutionary drift. Whether the purpose of these races was to be sacrificed to Zodiark is unknown; all we know for sure is that the Ancient Ascian's of the Thirteen had planned to sacrifice all of this life in order to bring about the resurrection of their fallen brethren. Whether or not Zodiark had a hand in planting this idea is not known, and there's nothing to support it, so every possibility exists that Zodiark created these races as a part of his grand plan to refresh the life of the star. This opens up the disturbing possibility that Zodiark created these races for a reason; perhaps they were a core part of the balance that Zodiark was creating and trying to maintain. If that's the case, then elimination of these races via a large-scale sacrifice would ultimately be disastrous for the star, and serve as a tragic undertone to the entire Ascian plan. If the removal of said races disrupts the balance of the star, things could very well collapse back in on themselves, only this time there won't be a race of willing aether-rich nigh-immortals to sacrifice to Zodiark in order to make things right again.

[RenewalXVII]

1 - natural evolutionary drift. If we take Emet in the MSQ at his word, he's lived "a thousand thousand" of our lifetimes. Maybe he was exaggerating (he is Emet after all) but assuming he wasn't using hyperbole, and assuming an average age of 50 years among the "civilized" races of the world, that's 50x1000x1000=50,000,000. 50 million years of existence. Even just assuming an average age of 30 that's still 30 million years. That's a long time for life to develop. Whether it developed "naturally" from primordial muck or was a result of creations made by the Ancients that now had souls of their own and were living free on the world is a point of debate, but the fact remains that the modern races possibly had the time to evolve normally from whatever ancestors came before them.

I believe the Sundering was established to have taken place about 12,000 years ago, a bit before the First Umbral Era. Emet-Selch's statement was almost certainly hyperbole, making mock of how brief the modern races' lifetimes are compared to an Ancient's.

[Helliebabe]

Why do I get this sneaking suspicion Hythlodaeus played us like fools in the past during ancient times?

[RyuDragnier]

Why do I get this sneaking suspicion Hythlodaeus played us like fools in the past during ancient times?

Now you got me thinking that it'll be revealed that he was the true villain all along.

[Daralii]

Why do I get this sneaking suspicion Hythlodaeus played us like fools in the past during ancient times?

The man whose name literally means "Speaker of nonsense" in Greek? It's possible.

[Anonymoose]

Emet-Selch's statement was almost certainly hyperbole

When he said the thousand-thousand lifetimes thing, my first reaction was to count up how many lifetimes I could conceivably fit into 12,000 years and then I sent a friend of mine a tell that just said, "Absolute drama king." I'm glad other people had similar reactions, lol.