New Pug

[NoctisUmbra]

lol sorry...

[Meatdawg]

I never said it wasn't viable to bring THMs to moogle or to beat Moogle with them. If most certainly is.

All I am saying is, in response to your assessment of THM DPS in the Moogle fight, is that it does not and cannot match up to the DPS of a competent ARC. Also, an exclusively nuking CNJ can in fact surpass the DPS of a THM due to their abundant MP recovery options. Both these points are widely accepted at this point. Now if you believe otherwise, I invite you to show some parse results.

Did you click on the link i provided? Obviously not. If you cant even read what I post, then what is the point...

How about you provide some parse results since I have...

[Soukyuu]

melee dps can be difficult because of server lag and moogles constantly running in circles. It tells you out of range, so you actually have to run infront of the moogles.

The reason they run around most of the time is because of hate switching between the archers. If you go full melee, the moogles stick to the tank and those who you pick off don't run around because everyone is in their range.

[NoctisUmbra]

Did you click on the link i provided? Obviously not. If you cant even read what I post, then what is the point...

How about you provide some parse results since I have...

Apologies, I was posting through my phone at that time. Looking at it now, while I will admit those numbers are impressive for a THM they are rather inflated. Looking at the DPS values I see 45 and 25. The 25 is quite low as expected, and the 45 I will consider a THM performing to the best of their ability in the Moogle fight. The Archer up there with 57 is the measure of a competent one and as you can see their DPS ceiling is well above a THM.

To reiterate, I do not mean to say THM is not viable. I mean to say the DPS ceiling of a THM is quite noticeably below that of an ARC for the Moogle fight, simply due to the mechanics of the fight. That parse only shows what I've been saying with the two Archers on top.

Again, this is a PGL thread and thus I will stop contributing to this off-topic discussion at this point.

[knite23]

Pug> thm here :P

[SeraviEdalborez]

What are you guys using Blindside with? Simian is multi hit so that's a bit of a waste. Howling Fist loses side combo's bonus damage but I'm not sure if that is eclipsed/evened by Blindside.

So that leaves, what, Pounce and Demolish?

[NoctisUmbra]

What are you guys using Blindside with? Simian is multi hit so that's a bit of a waste. Howling Fist loses side combo's bonus damage but I'm not sure if that is eclipsed/evened by Blindside.

So that leaves, what, Pounce and Demolish?

Howling Fist gets increased accuracy from the side, not increased damage. So using it from behind doesn't have any disadvantage. I've found it to be accurate in Full Party, and outside of Full Party I just use Hawk's Eye coupled with Blindside.

EDIT: Never mind I think I understand what you meant now. Howling Fist, on it's own, has increased accuracy when executed from the side. It receives a combo bonus if used in a combo following Punce > Demolish. The combo bonus is increased damage. You get the combo bonus regardless of what direction you do Howling Fist from because it's in a combo. The direction of Howling Fist would matter if there was a 4th WS in the combo because then you would have to fulfill the directional condition of Howling Fist for the Combo Bonus on said 4th skill.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Nah. I think you have to do it from the side for combo damage bonus. You get the purple combo "spark" around yourself even on an ender WS.

Hm I was going to use Goring Blade as an example, but then that doesn't even do Bleed unless you're at the rear anyways. Maybe I'm wrong.

Easiest way to confirm would be raw Howling Fist vs side-combo HF, vs rear-combo HF.

[NoctisUmbra]

Nah. I think you have to do it from the side for combo damage bonus. You get the purple combo "spark" around yourself even on an ender WS.

Hm I was going to use Goring Blade as an example, but then that doesn't even do Bleed unless you're at the rear anyways. Maybe I'm wrong.

Easiest way to confirm would be raw Howling Fist vs side-combo HF, vs rear-combo HF.

Alright... let me explain this as thoroughly as I can.

The first WS in any given WS combo never has a Combo Bonus. This is because they are the first and they do not combo following anything.

Any subsequent WS will have properties of their own as well as a Combo Bonus that is only received if all of the conditions of the previous WS are met and the combo is successful.

So in the example of Pounce > Demolish > Howling Fist:

If you use Pounce from behind the enemy you Stun it and because you fulfilled this condition, Demolish will get a purple ring around it signifying that it is available to be used as part of the combo. Demolish has a Combo Bonus of disabling an effect on the mob. This effect works because the conditions of Pounce were fulfilled, making Demolish part of a combo. Demolish does not have any directional conditions of it's own, so simply using it gives Howling Fist a purple ring, unlocking it for the combo. Having unlocked Howling Fist for a combo means you receive the combo bonus of Howling Fist. Howling Fist however also has a directional condition. This condition is irrelevant as far as combos go, however, because Howling Fist is the last skill in the sequence.

The purple spark effects are visually there to signify that the WS was used as part of a combo and its TP cost was waived, not because you met all of its conditions. That is why you don't get a purple effect on the first WS, even if you do it right.

[SeraviEdalborez]

I get that. but there are no 4th tier WS so I doubted that the 3rd set of combo sparks were pointless.
Seriously I'll just run a small test sample. Unless you have already done so in which case I will defer to you.