Does Elidibus actually think he can defeat the WoL?

[Rannie]

The covenant was between middy and Hydaelyn herself we were not a part of it. When Midgardsormer found out that we had her blessing, he says to her (this is quoted from as much as I can remember from Keeper of the Lake) "Hearken unto me Hydaelyn, I consent". Then he tells us that he will not hurt us and strips the blessing (darkens the Crystal's of light we have) and then pretty much tells us that we are on our own, yet he will be watching us. Afterwards when we go back to Minfilllia and she realizes that we no longer have the blessing we tell her about the "covenant" . She then mentions how there was a legend that he swore an oath to one of the goddesses that he would do what he can to protect the aether as long as he could drink from it as long as he wanted too. (Which he himself sorta states.) If I had my ps4 on I'd have exact quotes but its 1 pm and I do need to be up by 7 pm to get ready for work... gotta pay for my gaming habit lol

BTW this is all in the Keeper of the Lake quest in the unending Journey

[Riastrad]

"The covenant binds me to thee." This is my proof, I can really offer no more than that in my defense of my point.

[Quor]

I also dont understand him. The Ascians have been at this for a long time. Now they nearly did two calamities in a very short amount of time..why not simply wait until our character dies of old age? Even if they are somehow reborn right away they would still need x amount of years to grow up. Why risk it?

Logically speaking, if the Ascians are taking the risk, then the risk must be taken, for not taking it would result in something worse. Possible explanations for this include the "sound" from Way Back When being something that can only be contained if Zodiark is whole, and it threatens to manifest again, or it could be that the Ascian's know that with each rejoining their potential enemy (i.e. us, the WoL) gets stronger due to receiving the missing pieces of their original soul. There could be something of a tipping point beyond which enabling further rejoinings would be very hard, if not impossible, due to our interference. They could afford to take their time early on when less than half of our original soul was present, but now we have 8/14 shards collected in the same vessel. Things might need to be sped up to try and finish things before we have a chance to get stronger.

There is also the issue of the curveballs thrown via CT, the Exarch, Alexander/Omega/Garlond Ironworks and all the time travel/rift-hopping shenanigans contained therein. Omega is known to be a foreign entity, and thus may have lain outside of the purview of the Ascians (at least past the point that it was valuable to the Ascians to use it to cultivate Allagan tech advances) so the idea that we may have eventually crossed the rift in a way that was uncontrolled by the Ascians may have escaped their predictions, to say nothing of that whole time travel thing.

Bottom line, I think there are a lot of factors that have come into play that were beyond the original estimations of our three primary Ascians. I fully believed they were at the point where they could "cascade" the remaining shards into the Source in relatively quick succession, but then the most recent WoL incarnation (us) came into the picture and through a confluence of several events, powers that they did not expect to come into play have now joined the game. Elidibus is now at a point of do-or-die; he has to go all-out to achieve victory now, because waiting things out against an enemy who can manipulate time itself and possesses the means/knowledge to find him and permanently kill him is not an option.

[YianKutku]

Logically speaking, if the Ascians are taking the risk, then the risk must be taken, for not taking it would result in something worse. Possible explanations for this include the "sound" from Way Back When being something that can only be contained if Zodiark is whole, and it threatens to manifest again, or it could be that the Ascian's know that with each rejoining their potential enemy (i.e. us, the WoL) gets stronger due to receive the missing pieces of their original soul. There could be something of a tipping point beyond which enabling further rejoinings would be very hard, if not impossible, due to our interference. They could afford to take their time early on when less than half of our original soul was present, but now we have 8/14 shards collected in the same vessel. Things might need to be sped up to try and finish things before we have a chance to get stronger.

It does seem like we, as in our current incarnation as the WoL, is right on the curve where we are Rejoined enough to be a substantial threat to the Ascians, while also having a Blessing of Light that is strong enough to make it count, which subsequent WoLs might not have due to Hydaelyn weakening with each Rejoining.

Because if the Eighth Calamity did happen, we'd be 8+1 souls Rejoined anyway. So the difference would probably be that we'd have died in that Black Rose future, requiring Hydaelyn to give another Blessing of Light to another potential WoL. And since we've been told that the Blessings have been getting weaker as time went on (and Calamities happened), that might mean we're the last chance Hydaelyn has, and the extra soul Rejoined would not have been able to make up that difference.

There is also the issue of the curveballs thrown via CT, the Exarch, Alexander/Omega/Garlond Ironworks and all the time travel/rift-hopping shenanigans contained therein. Omega is known to be a foreign entity, and thus may have lain outside of the purview of the Ascians (at least past the point that it was valuable to the Ascians to use it to cultivate Allagan tech advances) so the idea that we may have eventually crossed the rift in a way that was uncontrolled by the Ascians may have escaped their predictions, to say nothing of that whole time travel thing.

Yeah, it seems like the ability for Garlond Ironworks (of the Black Rose future) to combine their knowledge of Alexander, Omega, and the Crystal Tower was somehow unexpected for the Ascians. In theory the Ascians could have planned around it once they knew, and indeed Emet-Selch was planning just that when he kidnapped the Exarch, but we defeated Emet-Selch before he could actually do anything about it, and apparently Elidibus doesn't think he (or any of the Sundered Ascians) could work it into subsequent plans. At least, Elidibus appears to have given up on long-term planning, and he apparently doesn't trust the other Ascians to be smart enough to think of something. Whether that's true or based only on Elidibus's arrogance is unknown at this time.

Bottom line, I think there are a lot of factors that have come into play that were beyond the original estimations of our three primary Ascians. I fully believed they were at the point where they could "cascade" the remaining shards into the Source in relatively quick succession, but then the most recent WoL incarnation (us) came into the picture and through a confluence of several events, powers that they did not expect to come into play have now joined the game. Elidibus is now at a point of do-or-die; he has to go all-out to achieve victory now, because waiting things out against an enemy who can manipulate time itself and possesses the means/knowledge to find him and permanently kill him is not an option.

I do wonder what sort of plans the Ascians had up until this point that makes their behaviour more rational. Considering the hilariously low opinion Emet-Selch had of Lahabrea, and Elidibus knowing through long experience that Lahabrea didn't listen to him, it seems like Lahabrea getting permanently defeated was simply a matter of time, and it's more surprising that it took twelve thousand years to do so. It wasn't even a Warrior of Light that defeated Lahabrea, or any action on Hydaelyn's part, but simply Lahabrea's own arrogance and impulsiveness that caused him to be in the perfect position to be betrayed by Thordan.

So Lahabrea's death was probably long since planned for and around, as well as his tendencies to go off on harebrained schemes that may or may not have panned out. But it was Lahabrea's death that caused Elidibus to re-awaken Emet-Selch, and then Emet-Selch got defeated by us, which was enough to shatter all of Emet-Selch's plans? It seems oddly fragile for such an important plan, and certainly not something someone with allegedly twelve thousand years of experience would have come up with.

[Rannie]

"The covenant binds me to thee." This is my proof, I can really offer no more than that in my defense of my point.

Yeah he does say that but that was him acknowledging who we are, which is one of Hydaelyn's chosen. Pretty much the whole interaction with us and middy was for us to realize that we cant always rely on Hydaelyn always being there to protect us. He even straight up asks our pc what have we done ourselves.

As for the firsts Crystal's, Cylvia(sp?), whom while she may have been a WoL on the 13th, she was also under the guidance of Lohgriff(sp?) And trying to usher in a calamity which she herself failed to do when Ardbert refused to do what he needed to do which was killing her. It was when he refused to sacrifice his friends that he got that crystal.

Spoiler tagged that jic someone hasn't done all of them..


Now, to add on to that, when we first received the water crystal, Hydaelyn spoke to us and said , "By thy deeds will the crystals reveal themselves to thee." She made no mention of any sacrifice, but was saying that if we did good deeds then they will appear. She also didnt say that just to us as it was shown in that self same cutscene that there were others with us listening to her. One being an Elezen woman and the other was a Roe male. (Btw the above quote of Hydaelyn may be paraphrased slightly as I'm now currently at work for my 10 hour shift)


Edit: though I do believe we have completely gotten off the rails of this actual thread and to everyone else I do so apologize for it. For the subject matter of this thread. I still believe that Elidibus is off the deep end and is now extremely desperate (desperate enough to rehash an old idea of his) but at the same time this may cause him to be a bit more dangerous to the WoL as well. (The little part of my brain that is sadistic wants it *looks down* yeah.) We did struggle against him while he was playing as zenos and I'd rather our fights be more like that but that's my opinion.

[EdwinLi]

At this point it is basically the Final Stand moment.

The story is set and the finale to this Season 1 storyline (aka Zodiark/Ascians Arc) appears to finally about to be reach in maybe 6.0 to 6.3 MSQ.

He is now the last member of the Ascian leadership and once he is gone the organization may fall or become nothing but a shadow of itself. It is the make or break moment with no other options left and everything is no longer under the Ascian's control anymore. How this final moment will end will determine the fate of all life in all Shards and the Source. Nothing is certain anymore for him and the only thing left is to pray something works or else everything they have worked for will die with him.

Though if the Season 1 storyline maybe finally ends in 6.0 to 6.3 (I pray it does end because this storyline been dragged on long enough to a point a new Season 2 story for the lvl 91+ content is best in my opinion), I am still curious what will Season 2 bring as the new antagonist and how the story may move on now that Zodiark and Ascians plot (since everything since 1.0 has been a big "Surprise! It was the Ascians starting this the entire time" plot) are no longer the main focus of the storyline nor the root cause of the dangers that happen in Season 2.

[Riastrad]

As for the firsts Crystal's, Cylvia(sp?), whom while she may have been a WoL on the 13th, she was also under the guidance of Lohgriff(sp?) And trying to usher in a calamity which she herself failed to do when Ardbert refused to do what he needed to do which was killing her. It was when he refused to sacrifice his friends that he got that crystal.

He held his comrade's salvation in his hand and cast it aside for the greater good. For his sacrifice, he was judged a hero,and in that instant, a warrior of light was born. His sacrifice had sparked the transformation. 'Twas fuel for the ritual to come...

Renda-Rae swore never again to betray her comrade's trust - to share with them the triumphs and the tragedies. To relinquish the freedom she had once held in the highest. Her sacrifice would hasten the transformation... 'Twas fuel for the ritual to come...

He stood at the precipice and almost forsook compassion for unflinching judgement... but mercifully turned aside at the last. His sacrifice would strengthen the transformation. 'Twas fuel for the ritual to come...

She had weighed traditions and identity against the lives of those she loved and made her choice, though it pained her terribly and in ways only a dwarf could understand... and Hydaelyn, it would seem.Through hardship and sacrifice was a new Warrior of light was born. Her sacrifice would very nearly complete the ritual. 'Twas fuel for the sacrifice to come - very soon, then, very soon.

His comrades had made their sacrifices in turn and as their mirror I had grown stronger for it. Had he but embraced his role and struck me down, victory would have been mine... But Ardbert, dear Ardbert, would not forsake his heart. In the end, he chose mercy. He chose love, and I was undone.

Sacrifice is the only way to forge is crystal. To love is to sacrifice, to bear with loss and let others in knowing how it will end, to judge others with mercy and to give that mercy even to the one you swore to protect, to give up that which you desire most in your pursuit of a saving a friend so others could live. Refusing to end a life, knowing the betrayal, even though all the world would call you a hero for it, is a sacrifice as well. Make no mistake, he gave up his retribution to make a wrong and right. Even as the flood came, he strove to find a way to save everyone, sacrificing everything to save those who hated him, cursed him and his friends. He bore it even as a hundred years passed and he felt himself fraying, he never truly gave in.

But, yes we have gotten off track. I'll still defend my theories but not without adding to the discussion. The only way I can see Elidibus beating us is if he manipulates a Warrior of light to use a blade of light to fragment us into shards again. Killing us in the process and triggering a "rebirth", one too weak to fight back. As my point earlier about how Hydaelyn is on her last legs, this will be our final chance to set things right. If we are killed here, we have no more resurrections, the Ascians merge the reflections and the Source bleeds dry of aether due to Zodiark's wanton consumption of life until even he himself is burned away.

[Rannie]

So one last question and I swear I wont derail this thread again. What sacrifice has our character made to received our very first Crystal. In the Uldah storyline the pc along with Thancred protected Nanamo from a voidsent, however even before that we were putting ourselves in harms way to help people. Then we received the fire crystal after defeating Ifrit we still did not have anything egocentric to sacrifice. We received the lightening Crystal next after we had rescued Frixio (I think that's the elder Sylphs name). Earth Crystal and wind was from defeating Titan, and then the ice crystal was from defeating that dragon that Lahabrea awoke.

How would the blade of light work against us. It seems that the only way it would work is if we ended up going straight up Ascian and I kinda doubt that would happen, seeing as how when our souls were forcibly extracted by that Garlean Dr. Frankenstein, we did everything we could just to nope him and get back in our bodies. (haha! Kinda kept it on track =P also just fyi I was enjoying the back and forth earlier as well... I mean I normally try to go to bed at 10 am but I didnt actually fall asleep until almost 2 pm)

[Riastrad]

Well not to discredit others, but your character and mine are the original WoL. They gave up a lot to come up short at the time when they were needed the most. I would wager the sacrifice had already been made but we needed the trials to make them come to fruition. It is a bit of a retcon as the story was obviously not written so far ahead, but Midgardsormr did ask us, as you said, what we had done to earn such a gift. In sealing away the blessing, he gave us the opportunity to truly earn them. Heavensward is all about the player character not shying away when it comes to what needs to be done. They often get to say during the various cut scenes "I do not fear my duty". Implying that they do wish someone else could do it, but seeing no option they don't begrudge the fact they are the only ones who can. A sacrifice they are willing to make if it saves the people they care about.

[SaberMaxwell]

Does the Blade of Light fragment, or is that specifically Hydaelyn's power? The only thing we know about Light as an aspect is it slows aether. Nothing about Light inherently has been stated to be a fragmenting force, or why hasn't the First fragmented into 14 shards of its own? (oh god, the Ascians would have so much work if they needed to rejoin fractally fragmented worlds). As well, the calamity of light would be brought about by Black Rose, a chemical weapon which freezes aether completely and has nothing to do with fragmenting people.

With regards to the Blade of Light specifically, when we struck Nabriales with it, he didn't fragment into pieces. He was forced out of his vessel and into the white auracite. Likewise with Igeyorhm and Emet Selch. Emet didn't separate into even one other person, he remained whole. Dying, forced out of his vessel and into the white auracite, but whole. If a Blade of Light were used on us, the WoL, and we were fragmented into pieces, it would be something completely new to the Blade of Light's toolset not previously mentioned.