I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[Hatstand]

2nd sentence of the second post in that thread: “That said, in most content no one will care if you aren't.”

I played WoW from the end of Classic (just 5 months before the release of Burning Crusade), up until around halfway through Legion, and not once did I have someone tell me that I should be DPS-ing as a healer.

Not once.

In 10 years of playing.

In fact, I saw several occurrences where a healer tried to DPS in a dungeon or raid, and got kicked immediately for doing so. If you’re a healer, you’re expected to heal and nothing else. DPS-ing healers are not tolerated.

Also, I was a regular browser of the forums, and I never saw a single thread ever started about healers DPS-ing. The one you linked was apparently started a year ago, long after I stopped playing.

My point was that the jobs aren’t pure healers by design, not anything about the the culture. That said, I’ve never been kicked for dpsing as a healer in a WoW dungeon, and all the healer guides (Icy Veins, that is) I’ve read for WoW include a dps section.

[NintendoAnimeFan]

My point was that the jobs aren’t pure healers by design, not anything about the the culture. That said, I’ve never been kicked for dpsing as a healer in a WoW dungeon, and all the healer guides (Icy Veins, that is) I’ve read for WoW include a dps section.

They actually ARE pure healers by design. Healer specializations are not designed for solo content. You switch to a dps spec for that.

[Hatstand]

They actually ARE pure healers by design. Healer specializations are not designed for solo content. You switch to a dps spec for that.

Again, not what I said. I never said healers were designed for solo content. I said that healers weren’t designed to do nothing but heal. In fact, the fact that you can switch to a dps spec for solo content only reinforces that fact. In ffxiv, healers have to have dps moves so they can complete solo content. In WoW, every healer can easily switch to a dps spec for solo content, so if they wanted to the WoW devs could have actually given WoW healers no dps moves. Despite this, a resto Druid (for example) has 2 DoTs, one of which is AoE, and a nuke. If they take feral affinity (which is recommended for dungeons), they get an additional 2 DoTs (both single target), two single target nukes, and and aoe nuke, and these feral damage abilities use their own resource in combo points.

As of 5.0, WoW healers have more in-depth dps mechanics than ffxiv healers, and that’s even before you get to disc priest, WoW’s dps healer.

Edit: I don’t know if WoW was different in the past. I only started checking it out after I despaired of healing in ShB

[NintendoAnimeFan]

Again, not what I said. I never said healers were designed for solo content. I said that healers weren’t designed to do nothing but heal. In fact, the fact that you can switch to a dps spec for solo content only reinforces that fact. In ffxiv, healers have to have dps moves so they can complete solo content. In WoW, every healer can easily switch to a dps spec for solo content, so if they wanted to the WoW devs could have actually given WoW healers no dps moves. Despite this, a resto Druid (for example) has 2 DoTs, one of which is AoE, and a nuke. If they take feral affinity (which is recommended for dungeons), they get an additional 2 DoTs (both single target), two single target nukes, and and aoe nuke, and these feral damage abilities use their own resource in combo points.

As of 5.0, WoW healers have more in-depth dps mechanics than ffxiv healers, and that’s even before you get to disc priest, WoW’s dps healer.

Edit: I don’t know if WoW was different in the past. I only started checking it out after I despaired of healing in ShB

Disc Priest was always damage reduction by using shields. Basically similar to AST, but without card buffs. In Legion they completely redesigned it into a heal-by-dps spec. That was when I switched to Holy. If I wanted to DPS, I’d play a DPS class.

You must’ve been on a very forgiving server then, because everyone I was with, across multiple servers, got kicked for healing in dungeons and raids.

[Endeleon]

2nd sentence of the second post in that thread: “That said, in most content no one will care if you aren't.”

I played WoW from the end of Classic (just 5 months before the release of Burning Crusade), up until around halfway through Legion, and not once did I have someone tell me that I should be DPS-ing as a healer.

Not once.

In 10 years of playing.

In fact, I saw several occurrences where a healer tried to DPS in a dungeon or raid, and got kicked immediately for doing so. If you’re a healer, you’re expected to heal and nothing else. DPS-ing healers are not tolerated.

Also, I was a regular browser of the forums, and I never saw a single thread ever started about healers DPS-ing. The one you linked was apparently started a year ago, long after I stopped playing.

Simple. This game isn't WoW. You need to DPS.

[NintendoAnimeFan]

*got kicked for DPS-ing as healers in dungeons and raids. Stupid autocorrect.

[Hatstand]

Disc Priest was always damage reduction by using shields. Basically similar to AST, but without card buffs. In Legion they completely redesigned it into a heal-by-dps spec. That was when I switched to Holy. If I wanted to DPS, I’d play a DPS class.

You must’ve been on a very forgiving server then, because everyone I was with, across multiple servers, got kicked for healing in dungeons and raids.

... AST is the shield healer in ffxiv? As someone who used to main AST and SCH, that’s news to me.

As for the forgiving-ness of the server, I’ve still run into plenty of unpleasant people, but what I get screamed at is for letting people drop, not for for dpsing. I get screamed at for failing at my primary job, when that happens, not for doing extra stuff. From what I’ve read, the perception of healer dps in WoW changed a lot when healer nukes became mana free, so dpsing now was no longer any barrier to you healing later. Maybe the culture has shifted somewhat since you played. I don’t know.

[Urthdigger]

This is a hyperbole. If the DPS had to do other things outside of that one button, like healing, since healers have been regulated to "green DPS," then yes, because healers do this. They've done this as DoTs were only pressed every so often as it were and you spammed Broil or Stone 95% of the rest of the time. Astrologian has been the only class that has more consistent actions needed because of the card system that isn't a DPS spell. If this is something you truly hate, then that class is not for you, so take up another.

And you're calling any additional buttons to do something as "button bloat." Look, just because you'd love to be able to just press a single button and nothing else doesn't mean the rest of us should be forced to or we're not worthy of touching this sacred role. Is it really so bad to ask for more engaging gameplay? Right now, healers have a fair amount of downtime, and the developers are loath to make heal checks more stringent requiring top of the line gear and perfect play since they already deal with people thinking healing is too hard for them to attempt as it is. All we want is for the thing we do during all that downtime to be more entertaining than twiddling our thumbs or spamming a single button.

[Ken_8O]

If I see a healer not dps'ing I will assume they don't know a thing/new/lazy. Those buttons should be on your bar and be used, if not you're dead weight. If you just want to heal and not dps you're playing the wrong game.

[JunseiKei]

SCH DoTs with bane weren’t button bloat. They were an interesting mechanic for dealing with multiple targets. You had to look at things, judge how fast they’re dying, whether the team is going to need emergency healing, and decide whether to DoT up a target and spread it or just skip to spamming nukes. Having only one DoT takes that mechanic away, because there’s no significant time investment in DoTing up one enemy, even if you can spread it.

They also added to bosses, because they had different durations, so it wasn’t like you were just hitting each button in sequence every 30 seconds. Keeping them up required some attention, whereas now SCH dps could be done efficiently by a drinking bird desk toy.

You know what I think is button bloat? Physick. A button no one ever uses because there’s always a more efficient heal option. Fey union and fey blessing could go, too, along with the entire fairy gauge. It’s such a boring mechanic and the devs have never seemed quite sure of what to do with it. Or they could improve it. I’d prefer an improvement but it’s not adding anything at the moment.

Now Scholars have that one DoT and Art of War. Foregoing on Bane was fine because if nothing else, you had blizzard, shadow flare and miasma II. Having Bio, Miasma, Miasma II, Bane, Shadow Flare and Blizzard to have what White Mage could do with Assize, Holy and Aero 3 is definitely bloat. The game doesn't have execution barriers. What's hard is having 8 people execute things perfectly at the same time.

Physick is at least needed for low level running. Unless you want to have just an excogitation, and 6 lustrates for full pull dungeon runs, since you brought up banes, which was mostly used in dungeons. For end game stuff, yeah, I can agree that is it fairly useless when the class has much more going for it.

I don't know why you'd want to get rid of the class's oGCD tools that certainly do get used in end game content, especially since you can no longer micromanage the fairy like macros used to allow you to. Fey blessing is there for to fall back on for AoE healing, but I agree in the end, I don't find a use for it because most of the time, you've planned out your tools to be used for the situation already. However, a stronger-than-Medica oGCD heal is still nice if it's not forcing your co-healer to use a GCD to heal.

Back in ARR we had a functional healing kit with far fewer buttons, and because there’s a fairly fixed amount of healing needed, adding new healing buttons is only going to cause others to become more redundant. That’s not to say that I don’t like getting new healing toys. I do. But they shouldn’t come at the cost of skewing the ratio of defensive to offensive abilities as much as that ratio has been skewed.

Less was demanded from players in the ARR days, too, and the player-base was kind of dumb with how to play the game with even so few buttons. In ARR days, the mechanics didn't really happen as quickly as they do now in savage tier. Coil was very much normal mode difficulty with high death potential of savage, a lot of which the same mechanics are now in dungeons (hello Kaliya and the circles from The Avatar in ACRF). I can't even say the DPS checks were really that hard; I legitimately didn't realize Coil had a DPS check until Nael. I mean, heck, the way we used skills drastically changed from ARR perspective (HG, Holm, Bene were largely viewed as 'oshit' buttons and avoided from being used unless things were going south fast. Now they're all part of CDs being mapped and used in content). I also haven't forgotten how much Scholar struggled with AoE healing in ARR if their White Mage co-healer died because they only had Whispering Dawn and Succor as many people talk in terms of perfect play when that's largely not the case.

And you're calling any additional buttons to do something as "button bloat." Look, just because you'd love to be able to just press a single button and nothing else doesn't mean the rest of us should be forced to or we're not worthy of touching this sacred role. Is it really so bad to ask for more engaging gameplay? Right now, healers have a fair amount of downtime, and the developers are loath to make heal checks more stringent requiring top of the line gear and perfect play since they already deal with people thinking healing is too hard for them to attempt as it is. All we want is for the thing we do during all that downtime to be more entertaining than twiddling our thumbs or spamming a single button.

I didn't say I loved it or even hated it. That's an assumption on your part. I simply said you've certainly called to attention how you clearly don't like how the current healer's DPS kits are and how you've become sarcastic toward statements that are at ends with yours.

I will say, however, there's a reason more people visibly play Machinist now versus the past.

It's all subjectivity.