I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[SigmaFalcieth]

So git gud scrub? Seriously, if you're doing things because you're at minimum ilvl (which is surprisingly low this expansion) and expect healers to pick up your slack on top of cleaning up your mess, then clearly you just want a carry.

Honestly, with the changes to make tanks easier to play, giving them more damage options while removing a good portion of their defensive cooldowns all while having mobs hit harder....it all makes me wonder why tanks are still being given mounts in the first place when it should be healers instead for having to do their job AND the DPSs job at the same time. I'm not saying "healers shouldn't dps", I'm saying that it should not be a requirement and that DPS players (and maybe tank players too) should git gud.

Low key smells like trolling. Shouldn't be required to dps? Why not? Cause it breaks your fantasy or some other bias from previous games kicking in? The game mechanics beg healers to dps explicitly with how soft the heal checks are. If i find a healer playing with his meat for more than half the fight because he's "anticipating incoming damage" in a scripted fight he ran 30+ times, he's getting kicked. Go watch netflix while farming nodes but don't be a leech when you can help contribute to faster everything for everyone. Anything less is lazy and using the healer role excuse as a veil to be dead weight

[JunseiKei]

Low key smells like trolling. Shouldn't be required to dps? Why not? Cause it breaks your fantasy or some other bias from previous games kicking in? The game mechanics beg healers to dps explicitly with how soft the heal checks are. If i find a healer playing with his meat for more than half the fight because he's "anticipating incoming damage" in a scripted fight he ran 30+ times, he's getting kicked. Go watch netflix while farming nodes but don't be a leech when you can help contribute to faster everything for everyone. Anything less is lazy and using the healer role excuse as a veil to be dead weight

Well, I don't entirely agree with the person you quoted, but...
...They were making a point that healers are expected to go above and beyond to perform.

I do, however, understand what I think they are saying: healers have to go out of their way to use DPS skills. DPS, well, it's in the role's name what they do. Tanks, their skills and their main focus already contribute DPS while doing their role's focus. Healers, however, aside from a couple of skills, do not contribute DPS for simply doing the core of their role (assize, earthly star, afflatus solace/rapture to gain misery are the exceptions of this).

When put in that context, it begs the question of why?
Why is the content balanced for healers to contribute so much DPS, despite needing to go out of their way to do so compared to the other roles?
Why are healers not re-balanced or reworked to contribute DPS and healing (like the aforementioned earthly star, assize, afflatus+misery combination)?

If healers, and other roles, say there is simply not enough to heal, instead of over-tuning fights like the disaster that was Gordias Savage, why not incorporate raid utilities on the "support" role that is healing?
Is it really that harmful to remove a large portion of the healer damage to raid utility to boost the roles that automatically do damage to compensate for the two healers that will take a more active support role?

Especially seeing how healer-specific mechanic would not be a new thing either (I actually loved the A7S room where you had to sit on a vent and block the poison from hitting everyone; I thought that was a great intended-for-healers mechanic). Maybe a buff like what we have in XIV already, or something 'new' (to XIV) like channeled or concentrated spells.

[Nariel]

Well, I don't entirely agree with the person you quoted, but...
...They were making a point that healers are expected to go above and beyond to perform.

I do, however, understand what I think they are saying: healers have to go out of their way to use DPS skills. DPS, well, it's in the role's name what they do. Tanks, their skills and their main focus already contribute DPS while doing their role's focus. Healers, however, aside from a couple of skills, do not contribute DPS for simply doing the core of their role (assize, earthly star, afflatus solace/rapture to gain misery are the exceptions of this).

When put in that context, it begs the question of why?
Why is the content balanced for healers to contribute so much DPS, despite needing to go out of their way to do so compared to the other roles?
Why are healers not re-balanced or reworked to contribute DPS and healing (like the aforementioned earthly star, assize, afflatus+misery combination)?

If healers, and other roles, say there is simply not enough to heal, instead of over-tuning fights like the disaster that was Gordias Savage, why not incorporate raid utilities on the "support" role that is healing?
Is it really that harmful to remove a large portion of the healer damage to raid utility to boost the roles that automatically do damage to compensate for the two healers that will take a more active support role?

Especially seeing how healer-specific mechanic would not be a new thing either (I actually loved the A7S room where you had to sit on a vent and block the poison from hitting everyone; I thought that was a great intended-for-healers mechanic). Maybe a buff like what we have in XIV already, or something 'new' (to XIV) like channeled or concentrated spells.

Idk, when you don't have to heal you use a dps spell to alway be doing something, its not that much going out of your way to use your dps toolkit to not stay idle waiting for something to happen.

I mean its pretty much the same for every one in the way you have to alway be doing something, whatever the skill does if it contribute in any way you have to use it to be a decent party mate.

Your DpS tools are as basic as possible and you are indeed challenged at being efficient enought at healing to have time to maintain one dot and spam one spell.

[JunseiKei]

Idk, when you don't have to heal you use a dps spell to alway be doing something, its not that much going out of your way to use your dps toolkit to not stay idle waiting for something to happen.

I mean its pretty much the same for every one in the way you have to alway be doing something, whatever the skill does if it contribute in any way you have to use it to be a decent party mate.

That's not at all the point I'm trying to make and pulls the attention away of the questions I'm posing.

[Nariel]

That's not at all the point I'm trying to make and pulls the attention away of the questions I'm posing.

How so ?

I don't think because you are a "heal" using anything that is not a heal/support is going out of your way, DpS skill are part of your toolkit as a healer and are to be used on downtime, downtime you have to create by getting better at healing. Using the full extent of your ability is the core of gameplay of everyone.

[NintendoAnimeFan]

I don't know if I've ever played a pure healer role in any mmo I've played where I only just heal so I'm confused where these pure healer players are coming from.

You’ve never played World of Warcraft then.

[JunseiKei]

How so ?

I don't think because you are a "heal" using anything that is not a heal/support is going out of your way, DpS skill are part of your toolkit as a healer and are to be used on downtime, downtime you have to create by getting better at healing. Using the full extent of your ability is the core of gameplay of everyone.

Healers are the most punished role for other peoples' mess ups, from your tank, your DPS and your co-healer.

Since you didn't understand:

• Any DPS, their role is to DPS. Everything they have contributes to this and sacrifices nothing to gain it (except for RDM and being forced to verraise or a SMN sacrificing Swiftcast to Resurrect /salute).
• A GNB with Royal Guard on does their standard combo (Keen Edge > Brutal Shell > Solid Barrel). This automatically contributes 900 potency worth of damage and grants a shield and a shell that leads into more damage potency options. This does not come at the expense of the role - it doesn't stop them from using CDs. Previous expansions, this may have been the case with stances. It no longer is.
• A healer is automatically penalized for using any GCD heal. If their co-healer has oGCD heals, but doesn't use them and forces another healer to use a GCD heal, that healer is actively punished (as a WHM, this is a daily struggle, even with the new lily system).
  Raid utility is generally craved by the player base.
• Why can't healers have more healing+DPS spells like earthly star, afflatus+misery and assize if their DPS is so required on completing duties near minimum ilvl?
• Healers are often viewed as a "support" role across the board, so why has the team not embraced the support role in these other functions?

What my previous ponderings were not addressing:

• Can healers DPS?
• Should healers DPS?
• Is hitting one DPS button hard?
• Should healers have a DPS button at all?

Honestly, most people, even through this thread, have been saying healers DPS because there is a lot of healing downtime, so you fill that downtime with DPS. My other musings were 'how would other players feel, especially healers, both casual and hardcore, if healers had less chances to because that downtime was completely filled with buffing opportunities that negated their personal DPS contribution for all raid DPS contribution?'

Personal thoughts that both support why I'm looking at it this way, but would steer the conversation away from what I'm thinking about:

I'm also looking at a perspective that is not in a vacuum.

(Example) Just because I may be a healer that also DPSs, I'm not naive enough to think that even my grey parse in my E4S clear means people think I did an alright job. Even if someone went through the logs to see it was because my co-healer made me sacrifice GCDs heals where other healers were not, hence my low [DPS] parse. Despite my co-healer being a class with ample oGCD tools that'd allow us both to DPS.
Most people would see my numbers and hit pass.(/example)

That is a direct example of the role being actively punished by another role - in this case, their own co-healer.

There are people that only do a specific healer rotation (IE: mapped their entire heal kit for a fight) and would rather wipe than deviate from that rotation and place well in healer DPS. Some people would rather drop DPS to heal, but do worse compared to healers of the former.

What's not in a vacuum: passing up players with percentiles in DPS on another site and not looking at the whys for every person you judge. This has mainly been on my mind since a certain XIV streamer made a poll on Twitter asking if it was toxic or not toxic to remove players based on their logs. This then becomes more of a social problem than a game design problem as the only metric of worth being used is DPS. The fact a fight is cleared or people died doesn't matter - just your DPS. That's why my complaints for this game are not leveraged against the game, but the community. However, this is thinking that detracts from my other thoughts.

You’ve never played World of Warcraft then.

Not just WoW. Mainly much older games that are people forgotten or simply never heard of by newer MMO players. Ragnarok Online, Perfect World, Forsaken World, TERA's healers do abysmal damage compared to their DPS counterparts, but they usually had something to compensate for that (like buffing...).

[Jybril]

He should really let healers have more supportive abilities somehow.
Right now everything is:
Heal + Heal - Heal + Regen - Heal + Shield - Shield + Regen.
and it gets no better from 70-80 which AST gets some really boring
skills which makes it literally WHMs and SCHs baby.

Maybe like Haste or something? If he doesn't want us to DPS
then add more variety than us clicking a single button for days on end.

However, as current things goes, if you have time to DPS, then do it.
No need to sit there and waste time for yourself and party, every little bit helps.

[Hatstand]

You’ve never played World of Warcraft then.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20768546750

Clearly WoW healers still have time to dps and it’s good manners to do so. Healer dps might be a lot weaker over there, but it doesn’t change the fact that doing something is better than doing nothing, and if you can contribute any dps while also healing it’s better for your party than just healing.

[Hatstand]

Snip

Yeah, but if you make it so you heal and do damage at the same time there’s no longer a feeling of balancing two priorities, which is something I love about healing. However, it would be nice if healing and damage dealing synergised more. They already do a little with WHM healing charging Misery, but I’d like to see a mechanic like that working in the other direction, too, like having each cast of a dps ability slightly lower the cooldown on tetra or benediction or something.

Also, I’d love a healer who healed through damage dealing, disc priest style. I just wouldn’t like healing and dealing damage to be conflated for all healers.

The other reason healer dps is good (although offensive buffing would be just fine too so long as it was complex enough to actually fill downtime, and not just a one button every few minutes thing like Chain Strategem) is that a dps’s job is never done (until the fight is over), but a healer’s job goes through periods of done-ness, especially if they’re doing their job well, and those periods need to be filled with something else useful.