We need an ilvl/gear requirement for leveling dungeons

[LaylaTsarra]

I actually find the most depressing part of this story is the fact that you're running a parser on casual dungeon content.

Amen. Got to love it really. Don't go anywhere without one right?

On topic I think the recently introduced coffer drops are pretty awesome. You can gear a roll at different levels with them and it's based on the roll that opens them. Sure beats trying to gear by running a dungeon and never getting drops you want. I hope we see a lot more of these in quests for 5.1 and beyond.

[Alleo]

So, on the one hand, I generally agree. I had a Dohn Mheg run where both DPS were doing ~3500 each on AoE pulls. I've had tissue paper tanks. There's a point at which encounters become mathematically impossible if people aren't geared, and rather tedious even if it IS possible.

On the other hand, I did this (being undergeared) recently.

Of course its possible to clear things but it makes it much more harder for everyone, especially if its the tank. Why not just buy some gear from vendors?

Also what if the person undergeared was also bad at their job? Or simply cant do their job? Would you be of the same mind when a tank cant hold aggro at all, everyone else gets all the monsters, they might die to tankbusters simply because they are too low or cant handle buffs at the same time (which might have been still fine with great gear). Would you think it great if they then turn around and say that they had a great experience doing that because they liked seeing the healer having to work for it?

IMO its all fine and dandy when people at least know their jobs and the rest is not bad and work harder for it but thats often not the case. And I am quite sure that you would not be a fan of harder dungeons with lower max ilvl if you constantly cant clear it or wipe a lot of times. Because bad players or people that are still learning wont just suddenly get good/great at it. Would you truly be running this all the times with randoms?

[Jybril]

So, on the one hand, I generally agree. I had a Dohn Mheg run where both DPS were doing ~3500 each on AoE pulls. I've had tissue paper tanks. There's a point at which encounters become mathematically impossible if people aren't geared, and rather tedious even if it IS possible.

On the other hand, I did this (being undergeared) recently. I got SCH to 61 after leveling and 50/60 dungeon roulette, went to buy shire gear, and found I only had enough for aug. weapon, normal chest, and normal legs. I had spent the bulk of my poetics recently on getting DRK full aug. shire, and I don't do full roulette daily anymore because I find the content boring. I really, really didn't want to go do MSQ3K: Errands With Cid Roulette or any of the other braindead poetics granting content. I had ~220 ilvl for SCH, some leftover HQ food and Infusions, and am pretty confident in my skill as a healer.

So I queued into Sirensong with the musty AF2 armor people have been mentioning in this thread. The tank went full tilt. And I healed it, no deaths except one DPS who got 9 stacks of vuln. on Governor (I even rescued them out of it the first time). Had to actually pop infusions to heal some of the spicier pulls, had to use Dissipation way more than is likely normal, had to hold back my gag reflex when I had to spam physick to keep the tank up, didn't DPS nearly as much as I could have properly geared. But I did it, and honestly it was fun to actually be challenged to heal outside of Savage prog/awful party members. I made the run go slower, but I find it hard to regret an experience that I feel validated my assessment of my own skill.

So while I think there needs to be a limit, I don't think it needs to be too high. In fact, I'm also of the opinion that max ilvl for dungeons needs to be lower, for both leveling and endgame. The level of faceroll that most content in this game is up to current patch contributes to bad habits in the playerbase, and actually requiring some degree of competent play by disallowing gross overgearing would help. Make people do mechanics in leveling dungeons FFS.

This story reminds me of a raider friend who parsed me and my friend back in SB. A WHM and PLD.
He parsed us what I think was Hells Lid or whatever it's called, and then told me aobut it and said how my friend sucked or whatever and
he noticed my short lags here and there causing my DPS to fall short and letting the Aero drop. After telling him he really shouldn't
be doing that because first of all...no one cares and secondly it's rude and no one asked and to leave that crap into his static, he was livid at me and blocked me.
Was my friend since late 2.0 until then..Nice guy too and I miss how he was. Just sad that he had to parse a heal and tank in a friggin' regular dungeon lol.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

I actually find the most depressing part of this story is the fact that you're running a parser on casual dungeon content.

I run it in all content to check how I'm doing. Neither I nor the tank mentioned a thing to the DPS. Not the parse, not the gear, not the BLM's awful rotation (which I noticed by the cast bars, not logs), not that I was running OOM on basic pulls, not that every boss took twice as long as normal. We told them "gg" and left the dungeon.

Of course its possible to clear things but it makes it much more harder for everyone, especially if its the tank. Why not just buy some gear from vendors?

Also what if the person undergeared was also bad at their job? Or simply cant do their job? Would you be of the same mind when a tank cant hold aggro at all, everyone else gets all the monsters, they might die to tankbusters simply because they are too low or cant handle buffs at the same time (which might have been still fine with great gear). Would you think it great if they then turn around and say that they had a great experience doing that because they liked seeing the healer having to work for it?

IMO its all fine and dandy when people at least know their jobs and the rest is not bad and work harder for it but thats often not the case. And I am quite sure that you would not be a fan of harder dungeons with lower max ilvl if you constantly cant clear it or wipe a lot of times. Because bad players or people that are still learning wont just suddenly get good/great at it. Would you truly be running this all the times with randoms?

I don't have much gil, because a lot of the ways to accumulate it, even passive ones like retainers, I just hate doing. Hate upkeeping things like that or dealing with the markets. And when vendor white gear is tens of thousands a pop, like 10% of my total wealth per piece, I'd rather save that money for savage consumables, crafted gear, and glamour. Plus, as I said, I was confident in my skill and figured a good healer undergeared would be no worse than a mediocre one overgeared. Yes, it's slightly selfish, but because I'm competent at my role the runs still went smoothly. I got commended at least once for every Sirensong run, so it didn't seem like anyone held a grudge (but who knows? I never told the DPS in the Dohn Mehg story I thought they were awful either).

If I had to heal the DPS through because the tank was of low competence, and I succeeded? Sure I'd call that a win. One of my favorite things to do late Stormblood was solo heal EX primals that were just bad enough for me to have to carry and not so bad that I couldn't. If the tank was ALSO undergeared, but very skilled? I still think the dungeon would have been possible. If I had just fallen flat on my face, I'd have excused myself, eaten the penalty, and committed to getting the poetics. As it was, I got most of the 360 gear I needed running Sirensong. By the second run I had ~245 and by the third I wasn't significantly different than someone in full unupgraded shire.

And on the contrary, I would welcome a higher likelihood of failure in casual content if it provided me with more engagement and resulted in more players actually learning to play the game before max level. I care about runs being interesting before I care about them being fast or easy; I may have mentioned that the Dohn Mheg DPS were bad, but, then again, it's the first time I had to actually consider MP and triage in FF14 since about ARR and that was kind of fun. I wouldn't want every single run to be like that, but I do want every single run to feel like either I had a chance to fail or that I improved somehow (e.g., optimized DPS better). Right now, the bulk of content in FF14 just doesn't allow for that on healer anymore if everyone knows the content and/or is overgeared.

[hynaku]

They just need to bring out a new deep dungeon for ones that want to level up other jobs and alts. They could add a new expansion to Heaven on high and raise max level to it to level 80.

[Mesarthim]

They just need to bring out a new deep dungeon for ones that want to level up other jobs and alts. They could add a new expansion to Heaven on high and raise max level to it to level 80.

Which isn't going to happen until 5.3 at the earliest.

[Talshara_Blade]

I just don't see this as a big problem in leveling dungeons. Never noticed it happen enough to even think about it.

[Rilifane]

snip.

The point is, you can't assume randoms in DF are skilled players. Skilled enough to easily make up for a severe lack of gear.
It's great and all that you're a skilled player who can guarantee a smooth run even undergeared. Good on you, good on your party.
But my first thought when I see a severly undergeared player in a dungeon isn't "Oh I'm sure he's a really skilled player so gear means nothing, he will easily make up for it with his A+ gameplayl!".
You may be able to manage the run well enough but that doesn't apply to everyone out there and more often than not the severly undergeared players are ones that generally don't really care about their contribution to a run which reflects in their gameplay and their attitude when it's clear they're holding the rest back to the point it becomes almost impossible to get through.
I have met only very few people who ever had the decency to bow out and make it their priority to get some decent gear when they were the ones who made the run impossible due to their current gear (+ poor gameplay usually aswell).

Someone already said it and I second this: getting gear in a MMO is a feature. Unless a game has a completely different design, gear is part of the character progression and therefor a feature just like getting enough money to at least get by is. If someone doesn't like it, it's on them.
But the game is design in a way that makes gear progression an important part even during leveling content.

[Missbone]

Stop complaining, i met several DDs while pushing my Tanks from 70 to 80 (only with the 73, 75 and 77 dungeon) witch where way undergeared. We made it somehow but you realy could feel the difference, some of them where so undergeared that we needed 40 or more minutes for a run that usualy is finished after around 25 minutes. I mean running around in the 77 Dungeon with a gearscore for lvl 65 is realy a bit exteme.

[Nora_of_Mira]

to throw my anecdote onto the pile...

Did the lvl 79 story dungeon last night with a SMN using all of their handed over lvl70 gear (the gear for boosting to 70). One of the longest dungeon runs I've had in quite a while.