Let's Theorize a 5.1 Balance Patch.

[Shurrikhan]

According to rdps or pdps? If its pdps that pretty much sucks.

I think it was meant as a joke, or to point out than NIN now deals more (r)DPS than SAM, seeing as there are only 4 melee...

But it's not as if "fourth" ever meant anything anyways, unless we're talking about pDPS on a pDPS-only job. It's just whether SAM is 4th in rDPS by a gap of a few, a few dozen, a few score, or a few hundred from the 3rd and 1st...

[TaiyouSeishin]

I think it was meant as a joke, or to point out than NIN now deals more (r)DPS than SAM, seeing as there are only 4 melee...

But it's not as if "fourth" ever meant anything anyways, unless we're talking about pDPS on a pDPS-only job. It's just whether SAM is 4th in rDPS by a gap of a few, a few dozen, a few score, or a few hundred from the 3rd and 1st...

*shrug* its why i asked

[Miralyth]

I have no opinion on changes to job mechanics, so I'll be providing a simple opinion on damage:

rDPS in categories from highest to lowest:

NIN/DRG:
- pDPS tax for damage buffs
MNK/SMN:
-pDPS tax for damage buffs
-rDPS tax for mantra/raise
-raise is a strong utility, but not spammable as with a RDM, and devotion is very weak compared to brotherhood, hence the same category
BRD/RDM/DNC:
-pDPS tax for damage buffs
-rDPS tax b/c of various utility and mobility (BRD/DNC) (see below)
-rDPS tax for vercure*** and strongest raise potential in the game
SAM/BLM/MCH:
-MCH about 150-250 behind BLM and SAM accounting for mechanics.
-MCH is lower because of mobility tax, which is a pretty small advantage in modern Savage and can at times be a disadvantage (e.g. raid expects ranged to carry mechanics the furthest, meaning they have a much smaller window to get back in time for AoE healing; melee only go to max melee range to drop mechanics, lots of finger spaghetti when moving for prolonged periods, certain camera type configurations can turn character around when moving away, requiring you to jump while doing rotation).
-rDPS tax for all three for having the highest pDPS.

The rDPS difference between NIN/DRG (highest) and MCH (lowest) should be about 500-600 around 90th percentile.

pDPS order:
SAM/BLM
MCH
MNK/SMN
NIN/DRG
BRD/RDM/DNC

Edit: I'm making an edit because of how many people met with disapproval over my inclusion of vercure. While I think vercure is fine the way it is and doesn't really need to be taxed at all, or perhaps with only 10-20 dps (it's still a targetable, at-will healing ability that can save a party member and therefore wholly superior to second wind or similar abilities), the developers will almost certainly see this differently because of its profound potential to impact casual content such as dungeons or Eureka. Changing vercure to an instant and targetable (including self - I'm looking at you, erase) version of second wind with a lower cooldown (let's say 60s) would help convince them to stop taxing so heavily for it and help RDM keep some of its identity.

If you want my personal opinion about vercure, I couldn't possibly care less if it's taxed at all. I think it's a fun ability for RDM in non-Savage and I want them to have it. It comes into play only rarely and I don't think it bothers most other DPS job mains for not having something comparable. I just don't think the devs will change their philosophy on its importance, unfortunately. I hope that they do.

[CrashofZenki]

snip

Yes! This SO much! That is balance!

[SaberMaxwell]

A tax for vercure? The tax for vercure is using vercure lol. It's Cure 1 at a much higher opportunity cost than White Mage's own Cure 1 lmao

[ForteNightshade]

If we're seriously taxing for Vercure.... what's next, Second Wind tax?

[IruruCece]

5.1 Patch Notes:

"Buffs/greased lightning stacks/stances/whatevers no longer tick down during in-battle cutscenes"

I'd sacrifice a lot for this.

[Archwizard]

I have no opinion on changes to job mechanics, so I'll be providing a simple opinion on damage:

rDPS in categories from highest to lowest:
BRD/RDM/DNC:
-rDPS tax for vercure and strongest raise potential in the game

Just to leave the "raise potential" discussion alone for a minute:

There's no advantage in having the RDM use Vercure. It's on the GCD, it has an MP cost and cast time (half the time), every cast is time the RDM is not dealing damage and its output is weaker than a basic Cure/Physick/Benefic.

Does it have niche uses in raid content? Sure, but not even as frequently as Verraise; you would literally only use Vercure to off-heal if both healers were incapacitated.

We accept that there's a tax on Verraise because we can most consistently reduce the cast time to a single GCD, rather than its usual 4. To say nothing of the resources it saves healers, or the increased uptime for players who don't have to wait on someone's Swiftcast to come off CD, that's 3 GCDs we personally skip on every cast.

Using Vercure is its own tax.

[Zyneste]

I have no opinion on changes to job mechanics, so I'll be providing a simple opinion on damage:

rDPS in categories from highest to lowest:
BRD/RDM/DNC:
-rDPS tax for vercure and strongest raise potential in the game

Clemency does double the potency in healing and PLD is highest to 2nd highest in terms of DPS between tanks. The act of casting a Heal on the GCD and not having and OGCD heal is the Tax.

Vercure (like all potency based healing) received a second handed nerf this expac. With the additional HP granted by accessories now, it heals for ~15% the RDM's HP instead of 20%, putting itself even further behind from Manawards utility.

[zonol]

I have no opinion on changes to job mechanics, so I'll be providing a simple opinion on damage:

rDPS in categories from highest to lowest:

NIN/DRG:
- pDPS tax for damage buffs
MNK/SMN:
-pDPS tax for damage buffs
-rDPS tax for mantra/raise
-raise is a strong utility, but not spammable as with a RDM, and devotion is very weak compared to brotherhood, hence the same category
BRD/RDM/DNC:
-pDPS tax for damage buffs
-rDPS tax b/c of various utility and mobility (BRD/DNC) (see below)
-rDPS tax for vercure and strongest raise potential in the game
SAM/BLM/MCH:
-MCH about 150-250 behind BLM and SAM accounting for mechanics.
-MCH is lower because of mobility tax, which is a pretty small advantage in modern Savage and can at times be a disadvantage (e.g. raid expects ranged to carry mechanics the furthest, meaning they have a much smaller window to get back in time for AoE healing; melee only go to max melee range to drop mechanics, lots of finger spaghetti when moving for prolonged periods, certain camera type configurations can turn character around when moving away, requiring you to jump while doing rotation).
-rDPS tax for all three for having the highest pDPS.

The rDPS difference between NIN/DRG (highest) and MCH (lowest) should be about 500-600 around 90th percentile.

pDPS order:
SAM/BLM
MCH
MNK/SMN
NIN/DRG
BRD/RDM/DNC

YES SQUARE ENIX LISTEN TO THIS GUY PLEASE DAMN HOW HARD IS IT TO READ AND LISTEN TO THR PLAYERS. This is 100% how the order should be! Sam-blm-mch-mnk-smn. But we all know they won’t listen or care. Specially when yoshi mains blm. Lmao the creator is 2nd to none!