Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content

[Connor]

Asking this seriously now (lol), but to what extent would more utility abilities on ranged DPS resolve this issue? I feel like if ranged DPS had the same level of utility they did in Stormblood. Even if they kept the personal damage the same as it is now

Ranged DPS has usually ‘justified’ its spot with support after all. While this naturally meant that it was entirely required, I’m sure they could have removed Refres and Tactician and added different utility oriented role skills instead.

If we look at utility on the ranged DPS role right now, Machinist has like none, Bard essentially has one utility skill (the others really aren’t worth mentioning in terms of making its utility justify its raid spot). Dancer is amazing in the utility area, but then it’s pDPS is too low for that utility to actually make it worth it. I want to say that Dancer could use some more support abilities too, but that would be pretty excessive I guess lol

If Bard had some support songs, Machinist had abilities like Hypercharge and Dismantle/Rend Mind, and Dancer got slight pDPS adjustments (or increases to utility if they really wanted), would the DPS gap between ranged and melee/Black Mage be less of an issue? Obviously though I’m not suggesting the return of Refresh/Tactician or other skills that would make the jobs required for any raid.

Idk I’m obviously extremely biased in terms of this, but I feel like making the ranged dps more of the ‘support DPS role’ it’s sold as would solve the issue of the DPS gap quite easily. Otherwise, pDPS increases could easily invalidate casters, particularly Red Mage and Summoner (not so much Black Mage). If ranged have higher DPS then we’ll probably end up in a situation where Red Mage / Summoner get pushed out of parties for one of the ranged, if not purely for the convenience of no cast times.

But if the ranged have utility, then Red Mage and Summoner have higher DPS (which I feel is justified purely on the basis of them both casters), then wouldn’t it be a more equal playing ground in terms of what jobs to use for the raid? Summoner and Red Mage would have their own utility so you can justify using them instead of ranged if you want, and I feel like they’re probably pretty good in terms of their utility anyway (at least Summoner is lol).

Basically, I think that if they used utility to close the gap for the ranged role with melee / Black Mage, then used pDPS to do the same for Red Mage / Summoner, then balancing the roles against each other and not just within themselves would become easier. Though, I guess because of my own bias towards wanting to be a ‘support-like’ job I’m not exactly looking at it objectively (though is anyone really?). It’s probably more likely that pDPS boosts across the board for all jobs across the board except melee/Black Mage would balance things out more easily than stuff like making ranged a more utility oriented role again. Though, part of me wants to say that this would just be a ‘band-aid’ that doesn’t actually solve anything, but maybe that’s just the bias talking again

[Shihoru]

None, because adding utility to the job adds to the complexity of the job and the responsibility of the job and should NOT tax your DPS. DPS should be a preferential choice on party utility and everyone should have that utility and you chose between it when deciding on your composition. It should be a question about your role and your responsibilities and which ones you wish to assume and how much you enjoy playing your class.

[Absimiliard]

I find humor in people referring to the SMN changes as a buff. That didn't raise their DPS at all. All it did was give them a small quality of life change by making one of their more egregious flaws a bit less cancerous. Granted, the change will probably improve DPS for inexperienced summoners by way of not penalizing them as heavily for having a dot fall off, but skilled summoners shouldn't be seeing gains.

[Ziggurat8]

Does anyone else think a test server would have made this ShB transition smoother?

[Kabooa]

Does anyone else think a test server would have made this ShB transition smoother?

No. It would just make people angrier.

[Aiscence]

A test server would have worked IF they were decided to do changes, but they are not the kind of people doing regular balance change and can let some job be half dead for an expansion.

[Cetonis]

Does anyone else think a test server would have made this ShB transition smoother?

They've had 8+ weeks of live servers, and still haven't been able to realize that ranged dps are heading for the dumpster. A test server would not have made them any less blind.

SE needs to solve some fundamental problems with their perception of job balance vs. the public perception of job balance.

They can think what they like about the accuracy of fflogs, or the justified-ness of the playerbase primarily valuing damage contribution at the high end of play. But they have to respect that these things impact player behavior way more than their calculations or wishful thinking ever will.

That doesn't mean they need to completely cave on their design philosophy and balance solely around fflogs, but they can't just wholly disregard it as they seem to be doing.

[cactuarzzzz]

SE has been insanely melee biased this expansion, just look at the struggling melee jobs versus a struggling caster:

SAM: Huge damage buffs, NIN: Huge damage buffs, MNK: QoLs that resulted in a big dps gain, SMN: lol I guess you are now slightly easier to play?

I'm convinced we BLM mains are lucky that we got released broken or else we'd be like everyone else bowing down to our melee overlords.

Coming from BLM.

[Lina_Slayer]

Coming from BLM.

You understand that when BLM struggled in SB it took until 4.2 to give it any thing of potency buff? Literally 6 months to give the worst DPS in the game something.

When nin struggled it took until 5.08, MNK until 5.05, SAM until 5.08, you realise SMN got basically nothing despite being way behind SAM (who got ~3% dps buff) and that ranged DPS were not even mentioned for buffs?

So yes I'll keep saying they are horribly melee biased, BLM was OP on release, which was incredibly lucky, because I've already seen how long it takes for us non-melee plebs to receive any kind of love.

[Absimiliard]

They can think what they like about the accuracy of fflogs, or the justified-ness of the playerbase primarily valuing damage contribution at the high end of play. But they have to respect that these things impact player behavior way more than their calculations or wishful thinking ever will.

A large part of the playerbase putting so much emphasis on damage output is their fault to begin with. The number of mechanics people are expected to do increases a bit with every expansion, it seems like. Combine the ever-growing number of mechanics (and increased pace/overlapping thereof) with tighter and tighter and tighter enrage timers and you get a bunch of players that want to push maximum damage to the exclusion of almost all else to get everything over with ASAP. The faster it dies, the less likely the raid is to wipe.

Mind you, this isn't one of those lolgametoohard posts. I have no opinion on the game's difficulty as it currently stands. I do, however, believe there is a direct correlation between fight design and the need for greater emphasis on damage. The damage first mentality existed as early as the coils in ARR, I concede, but it wasn't anywhere near as prevalent as it is now. Subsequent changes to encounter design philosophy have necessitated a far more aggressive approach to most fights.