Can we talk about how mnk, drg, and blm are blatantly overpowered right now?

[Zerathor]

Well at least someone is more optimistic than I am, though for a change I'd be quite happy to be wrong.

My hunch is 5.08 and 5.1 will be nothing but qol changes to dot and egi assault related matters, and no potency changes at all except indirectly. They said as much during the live letter after all, potencies and output were not mentioned explicitly like in the case of ninja and samurai. That'll leave us with a job that plays very slightly better, but still has crippling flaws that have gone unnoticed like trances and energy drain having poor downtime flexibility. All this changes nothing about its pecking order relative to blm.

In the best case scenario, people realize this and smn engagement continues to plummet, the job will be sent back for another look over that won't happen till 5.2 - or later. Worst case, the job turns into machinist where any legitimate flaws are drowned out for good by people - who generally don't raid - talking about how flashy and fun the job is to play.

They'll be buffed beyond belief, and all gameplay bugs fixed, and to celebrate, build another ultimate fight based around their cooldowns to the point they're borderline required in the fight to celebrate buffs. It feels eerily familiar....

[Aomine1992]

5 months is a long time and we got two slated balance patches let alone what drops with 5.2

Don't worry, Summoner will be undisputed again. Won't that be fun for everyone.

God you people are so negative lol we just want the crap mess of a job fixed, not to out damage BLM and send y’all to the dog house. Yes SE has been complete utter trash at balancing casters since SB but it still needs to happen before we are in the trash bin with the physical range dps.

[Kabooa]

God you people are so negative lol we just want the crap mess of a job fixed, not to out damage BLM and send y’all to the dog house. Yes SE has been complete utter trash at balancing casters since SB but it still needs to happen before we are in the trash bin with the physical range dps.

See, the thing is, I absolutely agree.

I generally don't like kneejerk "We need mo damage" no matter where it's sourced from. "More damage" has its own problems and effectively doesn't do much more than band aid the process, or at least, quiet the grumbling enough, but it also tends to lead to where we are now.

[Zerathor]

God you people are so negative lol we just want the crap mess of a job fixed, not to out damage BLM and send y’all to the dog house. Yes SE has been complete utter trash at balancing casters since SB but it still needs to happen before we are in the trash bin with the physical range dps.

They're nowhere near the trash bin. Physical ranged are nowhere near the trash bin either. I feel like this is more a matter of perspective of being demoted from god status for years, to a little under the meta being too much of a shock to handle. Not being in 80% of party comps isn't the trash bin, that's what everyone else had to deal with, and they were far worse off.

[TcomJ]

For me, it's not the homogenization; it's the way casters are balanced. Right now, the optimal way to learn and clear content is to use SMN (or RDM) first because of raise and switch to BLM for farming. No other roll has to deal with that. Playing one roll for clearing content, and then another for farming. The raise tax on SMN and RDM are way too high. Balance casters like ranged are balanced. BLM is high damage no utility, SMN is slightly lower damage, some utility, and make RDM low damage, high utility.

If you haven't noticed, they are removing utilities for homogenization right? In the name of "balance".

And if what you said is so, mnk would have been the job that has least buff and utility even less than SAM atm.

[dinnertime]

If the gap between BLM and both SMN and RDM's DPS is about a 1.5k - 2k difference, compared to HW and SB with the gap only being about less than 500, then I think there's actually a problem. This is not similar to the past issue of SMN being better than BLM in past expansions, this is a lot worse.

Actually, it's not just the caster roles. There's a huge gap in DPS for all of these jobs compared to past expansions and it's baffling. I'm only a mere casual player so my opinion might be flawed.

[Kabooa]

If the gap between BLM and both SMN and RDM's DPS is about a 1.5k - 2k difference, compared to HW and SB with the gap only being about less than 500, then I think there's actually a problem. This is not similar to the past issue of SMN being better than BLM in past expansions, this is a lot worse.

Actually, it's not just the caster roles. There's a huge gap in DPS for all of these jobs compared to past expansions and it's baffling. I'm only a mere casual player so my opinion might be flawed.

Yes, it's flawed.

Summoner and Red Mage are currently not as desirable.

However, when Summoner was higher across the board, Black Mage was -obsolete-. That's a far worse fate.

[dinnertime]

Yes, it's flawed.

Summoner and Red Mage are currently not as desirable.

However, when Summoner was higher across the board, Black Mage was -obsolete-. That's a far worse fate.

Honestly, seeing the gap now, I really do feel like people were too pressed about the numbers, but BLM totally deserved to be on top rather than SMN. I was pretty comfortable with where SMN was around late SB being lower than BLM but right now it's just too much.

[Fhyrr]

I've played MNK mainly since 2.0. I've always done it despite good or bad as the class was at specific times.

I see people's issue against MNK's dps when compared to SAM - and frankly, I agree. SAM should be the melee BLM as intended.

Nerfing is not the solution here. Rather than nerf MNK, they should just boost SAM up to BLM level or close to. SAM and BLM should be the ones competing for personal dps.

MNK should be under that along with DRG - however DRG has more raid buffs than MNK benefiting the actual functino of both roles, DPS. So either have MNK have more personal DPS than DRG while having less buffs or level both of these classes in terms of buffs to one another and have them occupy that moderate damage/moderate buffing potential.

As for NIN - either make it be proper support like a melee DNC; which they seem to be moving away from... or bring it in line with MNK/DRG, so that we have a triad of melee support for the big hitters.

I don't mind roles, I don't mind uniqueness - I love uniqueness and would welcome it. This discussion, regardless of this notion, shows that truly what needs to happen 'at this time' is really to bring these 'support' (now mildly as SE seems intent on moving away from support?) back in line with their personal numbers. Support capabilities should complete the class's personal capabilities. What balance comes from it should never make variations be significant - otherwise you get the extremes mentioned where x amount of classes is preferred rather than x+y+z.

Mind you, this is ignoring how poor MNK's design is still. This is the greatest crime of the class, and the biggest gripe I have (and maybe others?) with it. A discombobulated kit whose only saving grace is the same buttons we press repeatedly since 2.0.

Another big issue is the fact GL is a % damage boost, and considering Stat inflation, this will keep becoming worse and worse as 1% damage nerf or buff into GL mechanic will bring greater and greater oscilations.

There is a lot fundamentally wrong with MNK, and simply because it provides dps numbers doesn't mean the class's issues are not there. Frankly I think it would be a lot easier to balance if the class had evolved and had a concise overall mechanic with its own complexity. Rather than it being a 1+1+1, it should be 3.

[Shurrikhan]

I've played MNK mainly since 2.0. I've always done it despite good or bad as the class was at specific times.

I see people's issue against MNK's dps when compared to SAM - and frankly, I agree. SAM should be the melee BLM as intended.

Buffing all other jobs to X rDPS is still a relative nerf to whoever is already at that rDPS, just the same as if you had just nerfed them directly to bring them in line with a non-godtier job. The only difference is you've just wrecked the difficulty of content in the process, where you would otherwise have only made things a little bit harder for formerly meta compositions while making things easier for formerly non-meta compositions (a byproduct of opening the meta to all jobs).

Stop. Power creeping. The game.