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  1. #1
    Player
    Seku's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    583
    Character
    Seku Halvone
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Razard View Post
    Why? Because it uses a greatsword? I'm sorry to tell you this but big swords have been a Dark Knight thing since ever. It certainly doesn't absorb magic.
    Uh...actually that's **100 percent** what rune fencer and celes does, reduce and asorb magic. What does Dark knight do in FF14?

    It's not ahead in damage...

    It doesn't enfeeble.....

    It doesn't use it's HP to enhance attacks...

    It does specalize in lowering magical damage.

    You know what / who else specializes in reducing magical damage? Rune Fencer and Celes.

    Also for the white magic thing in FF3 on the NES version that, even then they had enfeebles. Later to be replaced by the darkness command in the re-work and never to see use white magic in it's base class again in any iteration thus why I pointed out **almost** every version of dark Knight. At this point you're grasping for straws. Please come back with a good counter argument and proof that in most of it's appearance dark knight didn't enfeeble or give up it's Hp to damage enemies. Until then, have fun sitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    Frey doesn't kill indiscriminately. The core debate of the first set of quests culminating in Our Answer is about idealism vs. pragmatism. In Frey's own words from a later questline:

    Serve… Save… Slave… Slay… I’ve sins aplenty, aye, but regrets? Not so much. And if she wouldn’t listen to me, the embodiment of good sense and pragmatism, then what hope could you possibly have. A house divided cannot stand, you know. This childish rebellion ends now.

    It's quite easy for the Warrior of Light to just do tasks because they are asked of him/her. There are plenty of people, as in the story of the merchant, who are willing to use the Warrior of Light as a tool for their personal benefit, but are just as willing to turn on them when it's convenient. "Our Weapon of Light." The same is true of 'Our Answer'.

    While your courageous new friends distract the dross, you will seek out and slay the leader. What a brilliant plan! Nothing like the countless other times we slew someone else's enemies.

    And here we come to the crux of Fray's views on the subject:

    Your affinity with your darkside grows stronger by the day. And yet...there is a hesitation. Listen to me. You have performed great deeds and saved countless people. You are a hero to the realm... But you are no dark knight. A dark knight accepts that he cannot save everyone─that sometimes, he is fortunate just to save himself. Sacrifice, is to renounce that which binds you. To recognize that which matters─and forsake all that does not. At the very least, you must realize that you cannot continue to carry all these burdens... Unless you wish to die a slave.

    Those knights are not innocent. After using you for their own benefit, they then want you to politely accompany them back for questioning on an issue of heresy. Yeah, right. This is our answer. See how quickly they change their minds after that.

    The entire point of the Dark Knight questline is that your player character is more than a quest completion tool. They're a person, with a voice, with a story waiting to be told.

    A chorus of voices cries out for a hero, and he comes.
    He smiles. He nods. And he remains silent...
    But he too has a voice...
    I will be heard...


    Fray: Listen to my voice. Listen to your heartbeat. Listen for the other...

    Fray is our voice. It's easy to do what's asked of you. What makes a Dark Knight different is a willingness to ask why, and act on behalf of their inner desires. To quote Sidurgu:

    To walk the path is to suffer. To sacrifice. Justice demands no less. But we must never lose sight of why we chose to walk it.

    A Dark Knight acts not because they are asked to. It's because they choose to.
    The knights were innocent, as Frey (yourself) was acting upon previous experiences, that came from different people. Having slayed Knights that had nothing (or at least not shown) to have any part of the ordeal. You literately walk into town with your weapon still as the guard that had came to fetched you said "you may be asked to surrender your weapon" , yet they did not take it. They also said "Surely there is no need for concern. I mean, “conversing with a corpse”? What fools do they take us for", showing doubt in what slander was being spoken about the Warrior of Light and taking their side. But instead of thinking of the more positive side of things, as well as common sense since he had previously worked to expose a heretic among their ranks, Fray (you) decided to slay guards within Whitebrim before you even get to town.

    This shows that as even a little bit of doubt is enough to set Frey (you) off and kill the towns guard. The entire point of the first set of quest(s) is that you are getting fed up with doing other peoples job, not getting any thanks, ect until they just want unchecked power, going as far as to kill towns guard (Thus a killing machine).

    To the rest of your post, that's all nice and well, but it happens **after** you gain initial control over your Dark Side and then the rest you just posting is them dealing with regrets from the past.

    After just re-watching that cut scene, the one you mention, it actually seems to be going for a middle ground. The Warrior of Light is not willing to allow Fray (your dark side) gain full control, but instead allows for a bit of him to come out to assist with dealing with the fight that stands before them (his past and his regrets). Probably knowing full well that if they do allow for the full Frey to come out, they would take it too far. Thus the name "Our Compromise". It's to show that you're not gong to take it as far as Fray (Killing a bunch of guards without actual facts or evidence), but you're no longer holding to the past and have gotten over those that you were thinking about over the quest line. It's also a show that you're now resolved to do what would other wise not be 100% moral (Your idealism vs. pragmatism. point of view) as you're now having to kill the npc, though at first you weren't resolved to do so.

    "Serve… Save… Slave… Slay… I’ve sins aplenty, aye, but regrets? Not so much. And if she wouldn’t listen to me, the embodiment of good sense and pragmatism, then what hope could you possibly have. A house divided cannot stand, you know. This childish rebellion ends now." is referring to the fact the warrior of light is at war with themselves and is coming to terms with that they may have to cross some lines that is in the gray area.

    Fray also says "A compromise? I suppose. Our dear friend did not allow for me to take the reins." -- This line here is showing that we aren't allowing for our full dark side to come out. Why? Because we would kill everyone that we suspect.

    And to wrap this up, you still haven't covered the Journal text at the "Our answer" part. Which is the fact that you **wrest control of your soul back**. And at the end it even goes out of the way to tell you that you subdued your Dark Side. - Which to me shows that Fray probably would have slaughtered everyone that appeared to be a threat.

    A Dark Knight struggles to keep their darkness in check, only unleashing their Dark Side when needed.
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    Last edited by Seku; 08-21-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Absimiliard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    2,031
    Character
    Cassius Rex
    World
    Louisoix
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Seku View Post
    Snip.
    Well damn. Finally remembered to check this thread only to find that someone else gave the same reply I would have. Good on ya.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    To the best of my knowledge, no job initiates a burst window within 3 GCDs. I would expect that using an axe involves a certain amount of building up and maintaining momentum.

    If every tank had to deal with identical mechanics, then we'd probably end up proving the thread topic correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seku View Post
    ...
    The point of the Dark Knight questline is that such people are not innocent. They are happy to use you when it suits their ends, but will just as easily turn on you when it's convenient to do so. There's no point blindly following orders... unless you want to "die a slave". The merchant who sends you to recover his goods and then demands payment when the Qiqirn who stole them had damaged them is not "an innocent". The temple knights lead by Lord Drillemont who send you off to fight their battles for them and then turn around and try to detain you for allegations of heresy over "conversing with a corpse" are not "innocents". What were you planning on doing? Submitting yourself to the temple knights for execution? Play with fire and you get burned.

    Hah hah...“surrender your weapon”? After what happened in Ul'dah? They must be mad.

    Actually, this quote:
    "Serve… Save… Slave… Slay… I’ve sins aplenty, aye, but regrets? Not so much. And if she wouldn’t listen to me, the embodiment of good sense and pragmatism, then what hope could you possibly have. A house divided cannot stand, you know. This childish rebellion ends now."
    has nothing to do with the level 50 quest. It's actually a reference to Myste, who has a similar stance to what you're arguing:

    So many broken by this world, then by you. So, so many… Woe betide the man who stands opposed to the Weapon of Light, for death will be his reward. Death for him and his kin and all he holds dear. Woe betide the man who stands with the Weapon of Light, for death will be his reward. Death for him and his kin and all that he holds dear. Like sands through the hourglass, everything we fight so desperately to protect slips through our fingers… and what remains… what remains…
    Is us. Only us, and the memory of our sin.


    Being a Dark Knight is about making a choice. It's easy to go along with whatever people tell you to do. In a way, it absolves you of the consequences of your decisions. A Dark Knight chooses their path, following their heart, and lives with the consequences:

    Such is our lot. Such is the fate of all who are born – to suffer and to die. Do not seek forgiveness, for it will not ease the burden. It weighs as it should.

    You can’t obsess over the mistakes of the past, or you’ll lose sight of the future. Of the people still with us, who need us more than ever.


    Every action has a consequence. No action is purely good or evil. While you might feel that your character personally would be inclined to die on their sword over in Whitebrim, I don't think that's what mine would do. That's not really the Dark Knight way.
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