AST Cards: Why they aren't fun and how they can be made better

[xDaemianx]

Response to Yoshida:

“We are truly sorry about the initial issues with the feel of the job. That said, card effects were changed to their current iteration because we received feedback from all regions that players did not want "useless cards." It does indeed lower the feeling of "drawing a good card," but if we make certain cards significantly more powerful than others, then we'll just return to fishing for the good ones, so we decided to simplify it. We plan on continuing with this style for now.” -YoshidaP

I'd like to see whether they checked how many of these players (AST, I assume) truly used the job at its fullest potential, not just for raiding content. I mean, did these players come to the content just becuase they knew AST had a card that could buff their party? If so, did they only think of "Balance"? As mentioned, cards like Arrow or Spear could buff your damage as well. And, yes, I know, balance is flat damage %, but arrow meant more SkSp/SpSp so you could use abilities faster = more damage; Spear being the least favourite as it did not mean that crit % ensured a critical hit.

So I see two possibilities, although there might be more, for this:

A- either they listened to players who complained about "useless cards" but were not ASTs, which means that they'd rather listen to a mob even if it means ruining the experience for people who enjoy playing AST, and forcing us ASTs to do their bidding just because they greed more DPS;

B- or they listened to ASTs who complained about "useless cards". But then again, did they somehow check these players played AST in other situations/content? Did they listen to ASTs or other players who did not only fish for balance? It's easy to complain and be listened if you gather the right amount of people who do what they do (fish for balance, think other cards are useless, talk to people and make them think that if they stick together and complain in a united front they'll get what they want).

On a side note, the RNG aspect seems gone with the new AST. Prior to its update, you didn't know the card-effect you were going to get and had to adapt. Now, it's simply a matter of selecting the right job for the right card. Don't like the seal? Redraw. Don't like it either? Redraw. No likey? Redraw! (Shocking). Still no? Major Arcana. What I mean is that whatever you do, it doesn't feel RNG, it feels feeding DMG and whatever you do, you'll end up with three seals. In the past, you had to work to get the best out of it.

[Acidblood]

snip

I find it ironic that the excuse for the new card system is to avoid "useless" cards, and yet the whole system as it now stands could be deleted if the AST themselves simply had better DPS abilities :/

[Lodi]

In order to avoid "useless" cards, every card is useless now!
Oh and we got rid of all the buff extenders, just because we can!
A complex and interesting healer class? Not on MY watch!

I find it ironic that the excuse for the new card system is to avoid "useless" cards, and yet the whole system as it now stands could be deleted if the AST themselves simply had better DPS abilities :/

Yeah, it's called White Mage. Similar heals, better rdps, less work.

Everybody who tells me the current AST is fine can go sit on a cactus.

[Seraphor]

I find it ironic that the excuse for the new card system is to avoid "useless" cards, and yet the whole system as it now stands could be deleted if the AST themselves simply had better DPS abilities :/

Trick Attack could be deleted if they just gave Ninja more pdps.
Dancers dances could just be deleted if they increases it's potencies.

It's about differentiating pDPS and rDPS and having a variety of builds on that spectrum.

Cards are AST's Trick Attack, they're even about as comparable of an effect when played well.
They do require more attention for the same effect though, so could do with some streamlining.
Personally I think we should have to choose between individual cards and charging Divination via seals. Then making all the buffs more effective, back up to 10% across the board.

Something like, all cards are 6%/10% buff based on melee/ranged, then Minor Arcana 'banks' the seal while granting the effect of Lord or Lady randomly.
Lord increases your MP regen, Lady increases your healing potency, for a short time.
Then Divination is 6/8/10% AoE buff.

In this system, you wouldn't need to target anyone to charge up a Divination, just 'bank' every card for its seal, then throw out an AoE 10% buff every 2 minutes.

[Hatstand]

Trick Attack could be deleted if they just gave Ninja more pdps.
Dancers dances could just be deleted if they increases it's potencies.

I haven’t played NIN, but you could also say that you could delete chain strategem if you gave SCH more personal dps. And I wouldn’t be at all upset if they did. Chain strategem is a boring ability. You just press it once every two minutes, give or take a little bit depending on the fight, then forget about it. That doesn’t mean all buffing cooldowns are useless. I talk a lot about Presence of Mind because I really enjoy it as an ability: you can use it for offence or defence or both as you judge necessary. You can actually think about how you use it.

The new AST cards are bad because you mechanically go through the motions of collecting the correct seal and placing it on the appropriate party member then you forget about it because what happens next is out of your hands and there’s not much you can do to effect it (unless you’re playing god-level AST and keeping track of all your party members rotations so you can buff each person at a time most optimal within that rotation, and even then there’s only so much you can do.) As the OP laid out, the old AST cards required you to actually think about how your cards would be used. Ergo they were a better system.

The difference is that chain strategem isn’t the primary selling point of the SCH, so it being a bad ability isn’t that big of a problem. AST cards on he other hand are AST’s main attraction. If that’s a bad system, it’s a problem for the class as a whole.

[Seraphor]

I haven’t played NIN, but you could also say that you could delete chain strategem if you gave SCH more personal dps. And I wouldn’t be at all upset if they did. Chain strategem is a boring ability. You just press it once every two minutes, give or take a little bit depending on the fight, then forget about it. That doesn’t mean all buffing cooldowns are useless. I talk a lot about Presence of Mind because I really enjoy it as an ability: you can use it for offence or defence or both as you judge necessary. You can actually think about how you use it.

The new AST cards are bad because you mechanically go through the motions of collecting the correct seal and placing it on the appropriate party member then you forget about it because what happens next is out of your hands and there’s not much you can do to effect it (unless you’re playing god-level AST and keeping track of all your party members rotations so you can buff each person at a time most optimal within that rotation, and even then there’s only so much you can do.) As the OP laid out, the old AST cards required you to actually think about how your cards would be used. Ergo they were a better system.

The difference is that chain strategem isn’t the primary selling point of the SCH, so it being a bad ability isn’t that big of a problem. AST cards on he other hand are AST’s main attraction. If that’s a bad system, it’s a problem for the class as a whole.

It's called a job mechanic.

Dancer has to go with the motions of activating Step and then executing dance moves... all just to bestow a 5% damage buff. And this is the primary selling point of the job.

Ninja has to use the correct Mudras to use Suiton, then position themselves behind the boss to use Trick attack, just to inflict a 10% defense debuff.

Like I said, it could be streamlined, so that the effort isnt so disproportionate to the effect, but saying they should just ditch the whole thing for more pDPS, is far too simplistic.
Do you WANT all healers to be WHMs?
Or are you just being overdramatic due to salt?
(not 'you' personally, anyone arguing that the system may as well be ditched because they don't like it anymore)

[Hatstand]

It's called a job mechanic.

Dancer has to go with the motions of activating Step and then executing dance moves... all just to bestow a 5% damage buff. And this is the primary selling point of the job.

Ninja has to use the correct Mudras to use Suiton, then position themselves behind the boss to use Trick attack, just to inflict a 10% defense debuff.

Like I said, it could be streamlined, so that the effort isnt so disproportionate to the effect, but saying they should just ditch the whole thing for more pDPS, is far too simplistic.
Do you WANT all healers to be WHMs?
Or are you just being overdramatic due to salt?

I’m not saying that ditching buffing for personal dps is the right way to go. I’m saying that all the healers’ kits (including their offensive kits) should require thought and decision making. If they could achieve that by giving all the healers a distinct and interesting way of doing personal dps then I’d be happy with that. If they restructured all the healers to have distinct and interesting buffing kits I’d be happy with that. When it comes down to it direct damage vs damage buffing isn’t that interesting a distinction. If you achieve x rDPS by hitting a button I don’t care whether it’s your own damage or your party’s.

So no, I don’t want all healers to be like WHM because WHM has never really had interesting offensive mechanics (aside from Presence of Mind). I want all healers to be like heavensward SCH or Stormblood AST in terms of offensive kits, because SCH used to have interesting personal dps and AST used to have interesting buffs. Not that they should just replicate the kit, but they should replicate the complexity. Or leave WHM simple for the people who like that. Either way. So long as there is an interesting option. Which there isn’t anymore.

That said, I don’t think dancer’s mechanics are all that interesting either. I was very disappointed when dancer’s buffs, which were supposed to be the highlight of the class, came nothing close to the complexity of the old AST cards. Maybe the dps jobs could stand to learn from the old healers, too.

Also, the idea that it’s okay for a job’s central Mechanic to become boring because other classes already have boring mechanics is kind of along the same lines as the idea that it’s okay to make SCH personal dps boring because WHM’s personal dps was already boring. SE can lower their standards all they want, but I will continue to hold them to the standards they have shown they can achieve in the past.