So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Gwenorai]

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

I don't understand this logic. It's an MMO - what did you expect when you joined it? If the bar is set so low that it's at the bottom of the deepest trench and you still can't do it. Then maybe the game honestly isn't for you? I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, but I literally do not understand this.

I find that if you sign up for the duty finder then you agree that you have some sort of basic knowledge and know-how to be able to do the most basic of things in this game. If you can't do that then why sign up for the duty? I couldn't do that, I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed if I was like that - I'm still like this today. I don't understand how people can be fine and actually complain when people complain about them doing below the minimum that is expected of them.

Finally, it's not 'new players' - you can't hide behind that. I've found plenty of new players who've taken to the game like fish and water. It's a difference in mindset. Some improve and strive for improvement. Some are fine being below mediocre and make no attempt to go beyond that.

Edit:
You have tooltips that tell you what to press and when you're given guides and information from the square which tell you the most basic of information on your rotation. There is a 'training' area which gives you gear and the likes that tells you the basic mechanics and the likes of the game. You can see every single attack coming your way, you know where the AoE is going to hit. You can see the cast bars. You have dummies to hit and practise your rotation. Your hotbars light up when you start a combo and direct you to what you can press next. The list goes on and on.

And you don't get to edit on how it's now about 'low story' content, you don't get to move the goal posts like that. I've barely seen any newbie die in low story content because the bar is so low. The only thing I've ever seen someone die is during titan because you can be thrown off. And this one time the dps were asleep during ifrit nails - and they weren't even new. Those that do tend to die are those who don't listen. Also who the heck is running a dps meter in low-level content?

[Goji1639]

I don't understand this logic. It's an MMO - what did you expect when you joined it? If the bar is set so low that it's at the bottom of the deepest trench and you still can't do it. Then maybe the game honestly isn't for you? I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, but I literally do not understand this.

I find that if you sign up for the duty finder then you agree that you have some sort of basic knowledge and know-how to be able to do the most basic of things in this game. If you can't do that then why sign up for the duty? I couldn't do that, I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed if I was like that - I'm still like this today. I don't understand how people can be fine and actually complain when people complain about them doing below the minimum that is expected of them.

Finally, it's not 'new players' - you can't hide behind that. I've found plenty of new players who've taken to the game like fish and water. It's a difference in mindset. Some improve and strive for improvement. Some are fine being below mediocre and make no attempt to go beyond that.

Edit:
You have tooltips that tell you what to press and when you're given guides and information from the square which tell you the most basic of information on your rotation. There is a 'training' area which gives you gear and the likes that tells you the basic mechanics and the likes of the game. You can see every single attack coming your way, you know where the AoE is going to hit. You can see the cast bars. You have dummies to hit and practise your rotation. Your hotbars light up when you start a combo and direct you to what you can press next. The list goes on and on.

And you don't get to edit on how it's now about 'low story' content, you don't get to move the goal posts like that. I've barely seen any newbie die in low story content because the bar is so low. The only thing I've ever seen someone die is during titan because you can be thrown off. And this one time the dps were asleep during titan nails - and they weren't even new.

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

You say that, but you've never spent 2 hours wiping in 24 man raids because you get grouped up with a bunch of those people who never bothered to learn mechanics and expect the rest of the group to be able to carry them, or don't understand they are bad cuz people stopped trying to help because of attitudes like yours.

[Ronduwil]

You say that, but you've never spent 2 hours wiping in 24 man raids because you get grouped up with a bunch of those people who never bothered to learn mechanics and expect the rest of the group to be able to carry them, or don't understand they are bad cuz people stopped trying to help because of attitudes like yours.

Why are you even raiding with players like that? Find a good FC and raid with them. Problem solved.

[HyoMinPark]

Why are you even raiding with players like that? Find a good FC and raid with them. Problem solved.

...Valkyrie is talking about 24-man raids. Not 8-man Savage raids. Pardon, but not everyone is in a large FC where they can grab 23 other people to do their weekly 24-man run with, nor should they really be expected to do that. 24-mans are largely done in the Duty Finder in all regions.

People could also just learn how to do the mechanics and not expect to be carried. Novel concept.

[Ronduwil]

...Valkyrie is talking about 24-man raids. Not 8-man Savage raids. Pardon, but not everyone is in a large FC where they can grab 23 other people to do their weekly 24-man run with, nor should they really be expected to do that. 24-mans are largely done in the Duty Finder in all regions.

Coming from WoW, I find this point of view hilariously refreshing. There are tons of thread wars in WoW over whether 25-man raids should be accessible through the WoW equivalent of duty finder (Raid Finder/LFR). The consensus among the elitists there is that widely accessible 25-man content breeds bad players who get used to being carried and should therefore be limited exclusively to pre-made groups. Personally, I think that raids available through duty finder should have no more than 10 people. Any more than that, and it's tough to maintain accountability. The problem is not that people aren't learning how to do mechanics and expecting to be carried. The problem is that 4% of the players aren't learning the mechanics, and odds are that one of those guys will be in your group every time when you're running with 24 random people.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Coming from WoW, I find this point of view hilariously refreshing. There are tons of thread wars in WoW over whether 25-man raids should be accessible through the WoW equivalent of duty finder (Raid Finder/LFR). The consensus among the elitists there is that widely accessible 25-man content breeds bad players who get used to being carried and should therefore be limited exclusively to pre-made groups. Personally, I think that raids available through duty finder should have no more than 10 people. Any more than that, and it's tough to maintain accountability. The problem is not that people aren't learning how to do mechanics and expecting to be carried. The problem is that 4% of the players aren't learning the mechanics, and odds are that one of those guys will be in your group every time when you're running with 24 random people.

But you see, it's not a group of 24. It's 3 groups of 8, which each party dealing with its own mechanics, spread into 3 parts of the arena generally, so as to not impact the other parties.

[Gwenorai]

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

I tell him what he's doing incorrectly in the nicest way possible. 'Hey, eat the fruit on the second stack so you don't die.' - 'Hey, don't pull ahead of me, these guys hurt.' - 'Hey, just throw out some cures and we should be fine there.'
Most are fine with it. If they make a mistake they tend to go 'I'm sorry, I'm new!' or 'Sorry, it's been a while.' And then they listen to people in the group and improve as a player because now they know what to do.
If your argument is 'Hmph, I don't want to hear it.' Then guess what buddy, the person being polite to you and giving you advice isn't the one being the butt.

When someone ignores my help and continues to keep dying to the very thing that we keep explaining to them about, they're making the situation harder for me/team to carry them - then yeah, they're now effecting my fun and the fun of the others. It's really not THAT hard to not be a self-important jackass and listen. It's not fun to be ignored.

[SturmChurro]

I tell him what he's doing incorrectly in the nicest way possible. 'Hey, eat the fruit on the second stack so you don't die.' - 'Hey, don't pull ahead of me, these guys hurt.' - 'Hey, just throw out some cures and we should be fine there.'
Most are fine with it. If they make a mistake they tend to go 'I'm sorry, I'm new!' And then they listen to people in the group and improve as a player because now they know what to do.
If your argument is 'Hmph, I don't want to hear it.' Then guess what buddy, the person being polite to you and giving you advice isn't the one being the butt.

When someone ignores my help and continues to keep dying and making the situation harder for me to carry them - then yeah, they're now effecting my fun. It's really not THAT hard to not be a self-important jackass and listen.

You should be doing what I do. Let them die, and then don't raise them. They pull ahead of you? Let them tank for awhile, purposefully avoid hitting any of their adds - if it's a dps let them die, if it's the healer let them face tank IF you don't want to wipe let them tank it for a little while then pick it up, as a statement. They complain about not being raised? Continue to not raise them. Swiftcast is an important CD that could be better spent on a glare.

[Gwenorai]

You should be doing what I do. Let them die, and then don't raise them. They pull ahead of you? Let them tank for awhile, purposefully avoid hitting any of their adds - if it's a dps let them die, if it's the healer let them face tank IF you don't want to wipe let them tank it for a little while then pick it up, as a statement. They complain about not being raised? Continue to not raise them. Swiftcast is an important CD that could be better spent on a glare.

I wish I could do this, but I'm a soft heart in dungeons. If they don't listen and continue to not listen I will kick them out though. It takes a lot for me to do that. I'm talking about the player is being straight-up unpleasant and just not listening to a single thing and then getting overly aggressive when told on how to avoid the said situation in the future.

This is why I don't wear the BK crown anymore.

Nothing wrong with mentioning mechanics before a boss fight. So, what do you do if the new player still screws it up and dies. How important is it that he realizes he's bad to you, or do you just skip all that and kick him?

Doesn't matter, you're mentioning low-level dungeons which means low-level trials. Most for which can be carried. I'll just explain it to you when you're dead. Or if we wipe. Most listen. But there's always the one who doesn't get it. I will just blacklist them if they're being overly unpleasant. It's the higher-end content where this becomes an issue, this is where you get kicked.