So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Hash_Browns]

Beyond that, unsolicited help is only really appropriate in situations where the group is struggling. In leveling content it may not be welcome, even if you're polite about it. If someone doesn't want your help, and the run is going fine without your lecture, then don't force the issue.

Fam, I hate to break this to you but you could have everyone roll their hands across their keyboards, and stand in every AOE possible in the story content as long as the healer is healing you will never lose.

The bar is so damn low for story content you could probably just map your 1-2-3 combo to your hotbar and be fine, that doesn't mean you shouldn't put in an effort.

[Vidu]

Beyond that, unsolicited help is only really appropriate in situations where the group is struggling. In leveling content it may not be welcome, even if you're polite about it. If someone doesn't want your help, and the run is going fine without your lecture, then don't force the issue.

Actually something we agree on - only my approach is probably different then yours: If someone is playing below standards and doesnt react to (polite) improvement suggestions you should solve the issue by simply removing the person from the run by vote-kicking. If they dont want my help to improve they wont get my help to clear the content in question, aka being carried.

Cant have it both ways: either you are or become a productive member of the team - or you need help.

Personally I'd like to see this policy adapted by everyone... no harrassment, no numbers, nothing said... just silent vote-kicks with people who'll never know that they cant progress with the story because they're to bad.

[Goji1639]

Fam, I hate to break this to you but you could have everyone roll their hands across their keyboards, and stand in every AOE possible in the story content as long as the healer is healing you will never lose.

The bar is so damn low for story content you could probably just map your 1-2-3 combo to your hotbar and be fine, that doesn't mean you shouldn't put in an effort.

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

[Hash_Browns]

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

Nah, I just expect people to put in effort.
If I'm in a leveling dungeon at level 60, and I'm putting in half the DPS because the SAM isn't doing anything - you better believe they are getting called out and/or kicked.

Learning is fine, being lazy & not putting in effort is not.
The bar being so low that healers are basically green DPS doesn't mean you should be carried.

[Goji1639]

Actually something we agree on - only my approach is probably different then yours: If someone is playing below standards and doesnt react to (polite) improvement suggestions you should solve the issue by simply removing the person from the run by vote-kicking. If they dont want my help to improve they wont get my help to clear the content in question, aka being carried.

Yea, that will be valid once SE starts letting new players run story content alone. They don't, so YOUR reward for "carrying" them comes in the form of new player bonuses. If the new player wants to listen to your "polite" lecture, that's fine. If he doesn't then just clear the dungeon and move on with your day, don't be petty and kick him from a faceroll story dungeon.

[Fynlar]

Yea, that will be valid once SE starts letting new players run story content alone. They don't, so YOUR reward for "carrying" them comes in the form of new player bonuses.

Unfortunately, new player bonuses in leveling content are so pitiful they may as well not exist (no tomes are given unless it's 50/60/70/80 content), so that isn't going to incentivize anyone to tolerate dead weight party members just because they happen to be new.

[Goji1639]

Nah, I just expect people to put in effort.
If I'm in a leveling dungeon at level 60, and I'm putting in half the DPS because the SAM isn't doing anything - you better believe they are getting called out and/or kicked.

Learning is fine, being lazy & not putting in effort is not.
The bar being so low that healers are basically green DPS doesn't mean you should be carried.

If the new players just AFK'ing fine. If he's actually playing but he sucks; save your lectures for situations where the group is legitimately struggling without his help. If a lecture from you isn't necessary, and the new player isn't interested, it's not really your place to force anything.

[Hash_Browns]

Yea, that will be valid once SE starts letting new players run story content alone. They don't, so YOUR reward for "carrying" them comes in the form of new player bonuses. If the new player wants to listen to your "polite" lecture, that's fine. If he doesn't then just clear the dungeon and move on with your day, don't be petty and kick him from a faceroll story dungeon.

The bonus isn't worth the carry.
Either way we are going to clear the dungeon, but just with a different person when the person who is expecting a carry gets kicked & replaced.

If the new players just AFK'ing fine. If he's actually playing but he sucks; save your lectures for situations where the group is legitimately struggling without his help. If a lecture from you isn't necessary, and the new player isn't interested, it's not really your place to force anything.

Yeah, no - not going to deal with players who want to be lazy because they can. That's not how it works.

[Goji1639]

The bonus isn't worth the carry.
Either way we are going to clear the dungeon, but just with a different person when the person who is expecting a carry gets kicked & replaced.



Yeah, no - not going to deal with players who want to be lazy because they can. That's not how it works.

Treat new players however you want. I didn't think I'd be changing anyone's mind here; I'm just of the opinion that this community is terrible. This conversation is just reaffirming that with a lot of your terrible attitudes towards new players. This is the kind of petty, stupid crap I'm talking about. But go ahead, be a tryhard calling out new players unnecessarily in low level story content. It's super impressive.

[Gwenorai]

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

I don't understand this logic. It's an MMO - what did you expect when you joined it? If the bar is set so low that it's at the bottom of the deepest trench and you still can't do it. Then maybe the game honestly isn't for you? I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, but I literally do not understand this.

I find that if you sign up for the duty finder then you agree that you have some sort of basic knowledge and know-how to be able to do the most basic of things in this game. If you can't do that then why sign up for the duty? I couldn't do that, I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed if I was like that - I'm still like this today. I don't understand how people can be fine and actually complain when people complain about them doing below the minimum that is expected of them.

Finally, it's not 'new players' - you can't hide behind that. I've found plenty of new players who've taken to the game like fish and water. It's a difference in mindset. Some improve and strive for improvement. Some are fine being below mediocre and make no attempt to go beyond that.

Edit:
You have tooltips that tell you what to press and when you're given guides and information from the square which tell you the most basic of information on your rotation. There is a 'training' area which gives you gear and the likes that tells you the basic mechanics and the likes of the game. You can see every single attack coming your way, you know where the AoE is going to hit. You can see the cast bars. You have dummies to hit and practise your rotation. Your hotbars light up when you start a combo and direct you to what you can press next. The list goes on and on.

And you don't get to edit on how it's now about 'low story' content, you don't get to move the goal posts like that. I've barely seen any newbie die in low story content because the bar is so low. The only thing I've ever seen someone die is during titan because you can be thrown off. And this one time the dps were asleep during ifrit nails - and they weren't even new. Those that do tend to die are those who don't listen. Also who the heck is running a dps meter in low-level content?