So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Kaedan]

I parse in most content, myself. Mostly just because I like to hold myself to a decent standard, and having numbers is the only way to do that.

To each their own, but non-Extreme/non-Savage content really has no standard to hold yourself to. You don't need a parser to tell you if you're sucking it up in a dungeon. "Having numbers" isn't "the only way" to critique your performance in dungeons.

[Imbrium]

Which is hilarious considering parsers and FFLogs are the ones moving the game forward. It's just snowflakes that cry because they can't be bothered to learn their class and "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" and other equally flawed arguments.

Which is sad, because the op asked for it to be left out of low level LEARNING content. It's not moving the game forward there, and lv70-80 players certainly know their rotations and fights well enough for their peace of mind.

People are looking at the title and grabbing pitchforks.

I hit reply too soon by accident, curse you mobile. Continuing, if players are using their parsers to harass new players at low levels, it's doubly sad because it is unnecessary. These are learning dungeons, not ex primals, not savage raid content. Pick your time and places, stop acting like everyone is out to get our parsers.

[Granyala]

"Having numbers" isn't "the only way" to critique your performance in dungeons.

It is because human perception is inherently flawed.

That being said: In dungeons I only parse for fun, when I am in there with a buddy and we want to see who can dish out more. I really don't care much about randoms performance b/c they are so easy and stuff dies anyway. Don't get my wrong: I will facepalm IRL when I see a no DPS healer standing around or get a funky ice mage but I won't say anything.

Also what @Imbrium said. LEARNING content means: I will get a lot of people still trying to wrap their heads around how stuff works. So the expectation of "good performance" is misplaced. And yes: that includes expert dungeons because despite their name, they are usually the first half serious environment in which you get to play your class with all abilities attached to it.
Imho it is retarded game design to teach people wrong rotations during the leveling process and then go a 180 at max level but hey. Not my game.

[SamSmoot]

You don't need a parser to tell who is underperforming in a dungeon

How can you tell that? I can barely tell how well I'm doing without using one, let alone other jobs that I'll never play.

[Millybonk]

At least in low level story dungeons. It's getting old.

I've been doing the main story as a healer, to avoid queue's, and I can think of at least 5 times off the top of my head where 1 DPS started harassing a sprout DPS over the dumb meter. These are like 40's normal story dungeons; never had any issues clearing them. It's stupid, and I actually want to defend the newbie, but I play on PS4 so it's almost impossible to actually converse in chat AND do your job. I usually just give the new player a commendation at the end, since it might make them feel better about it.

Of course, since I'm a diva, the last straw before I came here to whine on the forums about it was when it happened to me. I decided to queue as a Samurai for my first run of a story dungeon, and at the first boss I died to a mechanic. Unfortunate, but hey, that's why everyone gets a bonus for running with my newbie ass. Of course after the fight, right on queue, the other DPS goes off when his meter tells him I did less DPS than the healer; apparently he was so focused on the meter he didn't realize I died. Actually explaining it to him in chat wasn't an option (again, PS4), so I basically got to listen to crap about how I must've bought my character right up until the next boss, where my damage was fine; which eventually shut him up.

Anyways, garbage communities and things like damage meters just don't mix well. I understand them for personal use and progression stuff, but any mention of your dumb little meters in a random MSQ dungeon should be bannable.

I'm curious which dungeon to determine if you died to an obvious mechanic or not considering SAM's starting level, but you conveniently let that piece of information out.

I reckon a large part of players will be able to quickly determine the performance of a player just from looking at his rotation, buff/DoT uptimes, position, movement etc., as those obvious cases are right in your face if you just look closely, and you really don't need a damage meter for that.

~ 5 times in all your group content you had someone using meters and talking about the results, which in your mind equates to FF14 having a garbage community.
Enlighten me about the correlation/causality to get there.

[Millybonk]

Which is sad, because the op asked for it to be left out of low level LEARNING content. It's not moving the game forward there, and lv70-80 players certainly know their rotations and fights well enough for their peace of mind.

People are looking at the title and grabbing pitchforks.

I hit reply too soon by accident, curse you mobile. Continuing, if players are using their parsers to harass new players at low levels, it's doubly sad because it is unnecessary. These are learning dungeons, not ex primals, not savage raid content. Pick your time and places, stop acting like everyone is out to get our parsers.

The raw damage meter numbers might indeed not help a new player to get better, but considering the early dungeons are learning content in a group environment everyone, including new players, are up for scrutiny in terms of how they're playing.

[Vidu]

How can you tell that? I can barely tell how well I'm doing without using one, let alone other jobs that I'll never play.

It does require a certain knowledge of the jobs present, thats true.
Here a few general ways to start though - note: "doing well" does not only include dealing damage in my book.

For tanks
- obvious: are they holding aggro on everything?
- do you see them using their cooldowns in appropriate situations?

For healers
- do they have long peridos when they just stand around, doing nothing?
-> do you see them casting any dps-spells?
- are they using their HoTs appropriatly? (aka not between pulls)

For dps

- are they using their AoE-skills (in mob-groups of 4+)?
-> you can tell that several different ways:
1) Are all mobs HP dripping with more or less the same speed or is one mobs HP dropping a lot faster? If so, chances are that mob is being single targetted
2) Is everyone on everys mob aggro-list? If not, the person who isnt isnt using their AoE-skills. If someone only has the slightest bit of aggro (and siginficantly less than everyone else) chances are that person isnt using their full aggro-rotation but just hitting some skills in between that happen to be AoE
3) Do you see them cast or use AoE-spells? This requires a bit more knowledge of the jobs, aka needing to know which spells for catsers are AoE and telling whats AoE by animations. Good rule of thumb though: AoE-skills look like AoE-skills. So if stuff doesnt look like its hitting the whole group, its worth keeping an eye on the person in question.
- obviously the opposite is true for boss- or single target fights in general
- this is a bit more job-specific: do you see any buffs on their hotbar and/or dots on the enemy? Jobs like dragoon and monk always want to have certain buffs up and bard and summoner always want to keep dots on the mobs etc.
- do you see them using support-skills at all? Did the dancer pick a partner? Any group-buffs from bard, dancer, maschinst, dragoon, monk...? (aka: is a buff appearing on your buffbar?)

For everyone
- are mechanics being executed correctly?
- are they avoiding AoEs?
- is stuff dying fast enough?

With a bit of basic knowledge of every job its not that difficult to tell if someone has understood the basics of the job or not.
I couldnt tell if someone mastered their job, but I can tell if someone is completly failing at it, even if its a job like dragoon that I never play - because I still know enough to watch their buffs for certain icons.

[RoyalBeef]

and lv70-80 players certainly know their rotations and fights well enough for their peace of mind.
.

You dont group with randoms often, do you?

[Rivxkobe]

... lv70-80 players certainly know their rotations and fights well enough for their peace of mind.

/pats

Too be so innocent.

[Goji1639]

See, most of us are against harassment, we're not justifing it at all. Most of the ones you seem to think are, are only pointing out that it doesn't take a parser to spot underperfoming players.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have seen it 5 times, and only been called out once, even though with how prickly and defensive you have been makes things seem more like this is a "buddy" story where it didn't really happen quite the way you are portraying it.

Either way, you will always be the one constant in all of your dungeon runs. You can either accept that fact and focus on the one thing you can control, your own play. Or you can deny that and blame other players, pareses, content being too hard, and whatever else you might think of and never really improve much beyond a certain point.

As I understand that I am the one constant in all of my runs, I listen and evaluate when others comment on my play as they might be seeing something I'm not. As our goals are the same, clear the content, preferably in the way with the least amount of hassle. Before I ever consider commenting on anyone elses play, I first look to see what I could have done better.

Any player that is actively harassing another player needs to be reported. Pointing out someone could be doing better is not harassment in and of itself. And without the full context surrounding your particular incidents no one can say for certain.

The original intent of my thread was simply stating that meters shouldn't ever be made an issue in story content. Apparently you're all not allowed to make them an issue period, and can be summarily reported and banned if you do. I was content with that explanation.

The rest of this is just me "discussing" with people who don't agree with my viewpoint. Especially in low level content, I don't think it's the new players responsibility to defuse would be harassers or just take harassment on the chin and try to learn from it. I think suggesting that be how this kind of thing should be dealt with is extremely toxic.

Beyond that, unsolicited help is only really appropriate in situations where the group is struggling. In leveling content it may not be welcome, even if you're polite about it. If someone doesn't want your help, and the run is going fine without your lecture, then don't force the issue.

If the group is struggling you should POLITELY offer USEFUL feedback, and then if the new person still won't work with you vote kick them. "You're bad" isn't polite or useful. "Your damage sucks" isn't polite or useful. It seems like the problem with a lot of you is that you're just socially inept.