So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Hawklaser]

Again, not really sure how I'd be the common factor in all of this when I don't really chat in dungeons, and most of what I've seen doesn't directly involve me. This insistence on indicating that I'm the problem from people does come off as just more attempts at justifying harassment.

And yea, I'm expecting the worst once content gets difficult. The community is what it is I guess.

See, most of us are against harassment, we're not justifing it at all. Most of the ones you seem to think are, are only pointing out that it doesn't take a parser to spot underperfoming players.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have seen it 5 times, and only been called out once, even though with how prickly and defensive you have been makes things seem more like this is a "buddy" story where it didn't really happen quite the way you are portraying it.

Either way, you will always be the one constant in all of your dungeon runs. You can either accept that fact and focus on the one thing you can control, your own play. Or you can deny that and blame other players, pareses, content being too hard, and whatever else you might think of and never really improve much beyond a certain point.

As I understand that I am the one constant in all of my runs, I listen and evaluate when others comment on my play as they might be seeing something I'm not. As our goals are the same, clear the content, preferably in the way with the least amount of hassle. Before I ever consider commenting on anyone elses play, I first look to see what I could have done better.

Any player that is actively harassing another player needs to be reported. Pointing out someone could be doing better is not harassment in and of itself. And without the full context surrounding your particular incidents no one can say for certain.

[Goji1639]

See, most of us are against harassment, we're not justifing it at all. Most of the ones you seem to think are, are only pointing out that it doesn't take a parser to spot underperfoming players.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you have seen it 5 times, and only been called out once, even though with how prickly and defensive you have been makes things seem more like this is a "buddy" story where it didn't really happen quite the way you are portraying it.

Either way, you will always be the one constant in all of your dungeon runs. You can either accept that fact and focus on the one thing you can control, your own play. Or you can deny that and blame other players, pareses, content being too hard, and whatever else you might think of and never really improve much beyond a certain point.

As I understand that I am the one constant in all of my runs, I listen and evaluate when others comment on my play as they might be seeing something I'm not. As our goals are the same, clear the content, preferably in the way with the least amount of hassle. Before I ever consider commenting on anyone elses play, I first look to see what I could have done better.

Any player that is actively harassing another player needs to be reported. Pointing out someone could be doing better is not harassment in and of itself. And without the full context surrounding your particular incidents no one can say for certain.

The original intent of my thread was simply stating that meters shouldn't ever be made an issue in story content. Apparently you're all not allowed to make them an issue period, and can be summarily reported and banned if you do. I was content with that explanation.

The rest of this is just me "discussing" with people who don't agree with my viewpoint. Especially in low level content, I don't think it's the new players responsibility to defuse would be harassers or just take harassment on the chin and try to learn from it. I think suggesting that be how this kind of thing should be dealt with is extremely toxic.

Beyond that, unsolicited help is only really appropriate in situations where the group is struggling. In leveling content it may not be welcome, even if you're polite about it. If someone doesn't want your help, and the run is going fine without your lecture, then don't force the issue.

If the group is struggling you should POLITELY offer USEFUL feedback, and then if the new person still won't work with you vote kick them. "You're bad" isn't polite or useful. "Your damage sucks" isn't polite or useful. It seems like the problem with a lot of you is that you're just socially inept.

[Hash_Browns]

Beyond that, unsolicited help is only really appropriate in situations where the group is struggling. In leveling content it may not be welcome, even if you're polite about it. If someone doesn't want your help, and the run is going fine without your lecture, then don't force the issue.

Fam, I hate to break this to you but you could have everyone roll their hands across their keyboards, and stand in every AOE possible in the story content as long as the healer is healing you will never lose.

The bar is so damn low for story content you could probably just map your 1-2-3 combo to your hotbar and be fine, that doesn't mean you shouldn't put in an effort.

[Goji1639]

Fam, I hate to break this to you but you could have everyone roll their hands across their keyboards, and stand in every AOE possible in the story content as long as the healer is healing you will never lose.

The bar is so damn low for story content you could probably just map your 1-2-3 combo to your hotbar and be fine, that doesn't mean you shouldn't put in an effort.

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

[Hash_Browns]

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

Nah, I just expect people to put in effort.
If I'm in a leveling dungeon at level 60, and I'm putting in half the DPS because the SAM isn't doing anything - you better believe they are getting called out and/or kicked.

Learning is fine, being lazy & not putting in effort is not.
The bar being so low that healers are basically green DPS doesn't mean you should be carried.

[Goji1639]

Nah, I just expect people to put in effort.
If I'm in a leveling dungeon at level 60, and I'm putting in half the DPS because the SAM isn't doing anything - you better believe they are getting called out and/or kicked.

Learning is fine, being lazy & not putting in effort is not.
The bar being so low that healers are basically green DPS doesn't mean you should be carried.

If the new players just AFK'ing fine. If he's actually playing but he sucks; save your lectures for situations where the group is legitimately struggling without his help. If a lecture from you isn't necessary, and the new player isn't interested, it's not really your place to force anything.

[Gwenorai]

The bar is damn low in story content for a reason. Because new players struggling, dying and thus not contributing very effectively to the group are forced to run it with other people. So, by making it so easy you'd clear it with no issue even if the new person fell asleep, you have no reason to bother the new player.

I get it, though. Calling out people makes you feel important. ; )

I don't understand this logic. It's an MMO - what did you expect when you joined it? If the bar is set so low that it's at the bottom of the deepest trench and you still can't do it. Then maybe the game honestly isn't for you? I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, but I literally do not understand this.

I find that if you sign up for the duty finder then you agree that you have some sort of basic knowledge and know-how to be able to do the most basic of things in this game. If you can't do that then why sign up for the duty? I couldn't do that, I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed if I was like that - I'm still like this today. I don't understand how people can be fine and actually complain when people complain about them doing below the minimum that is expected of them.

Finally, it's not 'new players' - you can't hide behind that. I've found plenty of new players who've taken to the game like fish and water. It's a difference in mindset. Some improve and strive for improvement. Some are fine being below mediocre and make no attempt to go beyond that.

Edit:
You have tooltips that tell you what to press and when you're given guides and information from the square which tell you the most basic of information on your rotation. There is a 'training' area which gives you gear and the likes that tells you the basic mechanics and the likes of the game. You can see every single attack coming your way, you know where the AoE is going to hit. You can see the cast bars. You have dummies to hit and practise your rotation. Your hotbars light up when you start a combo and direct you to what you can press next. The list goes on and on.

And you don't get to edit on how it's now about 'low story' content, you don't get to move the goal posts like that. I've barely seen any newbie die in low story content because the bar is so low. The only thing I've ever seen someone die is during titan because you can be thrown off. And this one time the dps were asleep during ifrit nails - and they weren't even new. Those that do tend to die are those who don't listen. Also who the heck is running a dps meter in low-level content?

[Goji1639]

I don't understand this logic. It's an MMO - what did you expect when you joined it? If the bar is set so low that it's at the bottom of the deepest trench and you still can't do it. Then maybe the game honestly isn't for you? I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, but I literally do not understand this.

I find that if you sign up for the duty finder then you agree that you have some sort of basic knowledge and know-how to be able to do the most basic of things in this game. If you can't do that then why sign up for the duty? I couldn't do that, I'd be too embarrassed and ashamed if I was like that - I'm still like this today. I don't understand how people can be fine and actually complain when people complain about them doing below the minimum that is expected of them.

Finally, it's not 'new players' - you can't hide behind that. I've found plenty of new players who've taken to the game like fish and water. It's a difference in mindset. Some improve and strive for improvement. Some are fine being below mediocre and make no attempt to go beyond that.

Edit:
You have tooltips that tell you what to press and when you're given guides and information from the square which tell you the most basic of information on your rotation. There is a 'training' area which gives you gear and the likes that tells you the basic mechanics and the likes of the game. You can see every single attack coming your way, you know where the AoE is going to hit. You can see the cast bars. You have dummies to hit and practise your rotation. Your hotbars light up when you start a combo and direct you to what you can press next. The list goes on and on.

And you don't get to edit on how it's now about 'low story' content, you don't get to move the goal posts like that. I've barely seen any newbie die in low story content because the bar is so low. The only thing I've ever seen someone die is during titan because you can be thrown off. And this one time the dps were asleep during titan nails - and they weren't even new.

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

You say that, but you've never spent 2 hours wiping in 24 man raids because you get grouped up with a bunch of those people who never bothered to learn mechanics and expect the rest of the group to be able to carry them, or don't understand they are bad cuz people stopped trying to help because of attitudes like yours.

[Gwenorai]

So, the content is so easy that you can clear it easily even if someone in the group sucks. Do you A) just let the new person have fun, or B) lecture him regardless of whether or not he wants a lecture?

It's a game and the content is trivial. He's not effecting your fun and you're getting a bonus for helping him. It's really not THAT hard to just not be a self-important jackass.

I tell him what he's doing incorrectly in the nicest way possible. 'Hey, eat the fruit on the second stack so you don't die.' - 'Hey, don't pull ahead of me, these guys hurt.' - 'Hey, just throw out some cures and we should be fine there.'
Most are fine with it. If they make a mistake they tend to go 'I'm sorry, I'm new!' or 'Sorry, it's been a while.' And then they listen to people in the group and improve as a player because now they know what to do.
If your argument is 'Hmph, I don't want to hear it.' Then guess what buddy, the person being polite to you and giving you advice isn't the one being the butt.

When someone ignores my help and continues to keep dying to the very thing that we keep explaining to them about, they're making the situation harder for me/team to carry them - then yeah, they're now effecting my fun and the fun of the others. It's really not THAT hard to not be a self-important jackass and listen. It's not fun to be ignored.