So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Goji1639]

No one is harassing anyone... Ever... You're a liar, we all know this since no one hardly ever sees this harassment you claim and are adamant about being non stop. And I've been running "Leveling Dungeons" (No such thing btw, except for 5 of them, after Thousand Maws you have to start paying attention. 10 if you count the Daily Roulette's) Non stop to level other jobs.

Not sure how much I trust the accounts of a community that just seems desperate to A) justify their own behavior, and B) defend their damage meters.

No one is harassing anyone... Ever. LOL

Except, you’ll base your assumptions of the entire community off of your own limited experiences. This community is no better or worse than any other gaming community, and attempting to vilify it off of limited experience won’t really do you many favors. It comes off as an nonconstructive and salty dig at the playerbase and not much else.

My own experiences are kind of what I have to go with. The solution is reporting them; everything else is just feedback and opinion. I'm of course going to speak to my experiences, and you're free to speak to yours.

[Lunavi]

If you ever see things like this happen I heavily encourage you to report it as it IS already a bannable offense. Even if someone mentions that they use parsers that is enough ground to report them on, which is a rule that is basically there in place to make it easier to ban people for harassing people over parsers. The only reason why SE looks through the fingers on this one if no harassment is involved is because damage meters are actually very helpful for static raid groups. I do not by necessity agree with this, but I can understand where they are coming from, and since they made it easier to hide logs at FFlogs even I have become warmer towards its use.

So yes, what you ask for is already, thankfully, a thing and I encourage you to use it to make the community a better place if you see it happen (I know I try to, however, I have never seen it happen, even in high-level content).

[HyoMinPark]

My own experiences are kind of what I have to go with. The solution is reporting them; everything else is just feedback and opinion. I'm of course going to speak to my experiences, and you're free to speak to yours.

I still disagree with you branding the entire community as bad based off of a few bad apples that you happened to run into. That’s a sweeping generalization if I’ve ever seen one. I’m not denying jerks exist, but they’re hardly a majority in the community.

If you ever see things like this happen I heavily encourage you to report it as it IS already a bannable offense. Even if someone mentions that they use parsers that is enough ground to report them on, which is a rule that is basically there in place to make it easier to ban people for harassing people over parsers. The only reason why SE looks through the fingers on this one if no harassment is involved is because damage meters are actually very helpful for static raid groups. I do not by necessity agree with this, but I can understand where they are coming from, and since they made it easier to hide logs at FFlogs even I have become warmer towards its use.

So yes, what you ask for is already, thankfully, a thing and I encourage you to use it to make the community a better place if you see it happen (I know I try to, however, I have never seen it happen, even in high-level content).

This is incorrect—GMs punish if parsers are mentioned even if no harassment took place because it is still a violation of the “no third-party tools” clause in the ToS. The developers tolerate parsers because they understand high-end players value them in raids. But they still don’t like them being brought up in chat in any way (non-harassing or harassing), and give GMs full levy to dish out punishment. That’s why people advise to stick to the “don’t ask, don’t tell”; because even innocent comments such as telling someone who asks for their numbers their numbers gets people in trouble.

There was actually a thread on here a couple months back about a person who was pulled into GM Gaol and given a temp ban for posting numbers in chat to a player who explicitly asked how they were doing. There was no harassment involved, yet someone still reported them because “omg parser bad”.

[Komarimono]

Not sure how much I trust the accounts of a community that just seems desperate to A) justify their own behavior, and B) defend their damage meters.

No one is harassing anyone... Ever. LOL


My own experiences are kind of what I have to go with. The solution is reporting them; everything else is just feedback and opinion. I'm of course going to speak to my experiences, and you're free to speak to yours.

And we're to take the word of someone who has barely run that many dungeons? I mean... If you've had run hundreds of them and seen this happening over and over, you may have something to stand on. But you do know that you're clearly visible on the Lodestone and we can see everything, right?

I'll take the opinions and words of those who are actually running said dungeons hundreds if not thousands of times over your very few, sorry...

[galbsadi]

Not sure how much I trust the accounts of a community that just seems desperate to A) justify their own behavior, and B) defend their damage meters.

Re: damage meters, that's hardly specific to FFXIV. In fact, I'd find it more difficult to find a game that DIDN'T utilize damage meters than one that does, often for legitimate purposes. Let's see:
- FFXIV (via ACT)
- WOW (via addons)
- SWTOR (also via ACT)
- Everquest (also via ACT)
- ESO (via addons)
- TERA (via Shinra)

My own experiences are kind of what I have to go with. The solution is reporting them; everything else is just feedback and opinion. I'm of course going to speak to my experiences, and you're free to speak to yours.

While this is certainly true that you have to rely on your own experiences, it's not reasonable to define an entire community based off what you've seen likely in a few interactions. If you are seeing this happen regularly all the time, I'd be inclined to believe that maybe the problem is you, not them (sorry, but sometimes truth can be harsh).

I've still almost never come across anything truly toxic here, and, if anything, I've come across less negativity here (albeit not by much) than in other MMOs. People are people and all that jazz.

[Goji1639]

And we're to take the word of someone who has barely run that many dungeons? I mean... If you've had run hundreds of them and seen this happening over and over, you may have something to stand on. But you do know that you're clearly visible on the Lodestone and we can see everything, right?

I'll take the opinions and words of those who are actually running said dungeons hundreds if not thousands of times over your very few, sorry...

I'm not asking you to take my word. I've just stated my experiences and my opinion of the community based on them. Do whatever you want with that. I can't imagine it's going to get better as content gets more difficult, but maybe I've just been very unlucky. Who knows.

While this is certainly true that you have to rely on your own experiences, it's not reasonable to define an entire community based off what you've seen likely in a few interactions. If you are seeing this happen regularly all the time, I'd be inclined to believe that maybe the problem is you, not them (sorry, but sometimes truth can be harsh).

I've still almost never come across anything truly toxic here, and, if anything, I've come across less negativity here (albeit not by much) than in other MMOs. People are people and all that jazz.

Well, since I can't address the entire community on an individual level I do have to assess it in broad, general terms. I'm not sure why the problem would be me. I don't really talk in dungeons, because it's hard to chat on PS4, and I've not really been involved in many wipes. A lot of what I've seen didn't actually involve me, since I mainly go as healer. It's always a newbie DPS getting crap, and me getting crap one of the few times I rolled DPS. It's all in the OP.

[Lunavi]

This is incorrect—GMs punish if parsers are mentioned even if no harassment took place because it is still a violation of the “no third-party tools” clause in the ToS. The developers tolerate parsers because they understand high-end players value them in raids. But they still don’t like them being brought up in chat in any way (non-harassing or harassing), and give GMs full levy to dish out punishment. That’s why people advise to stick to the “don’t ask, don’t tell”; because even innocent comments such as telling someone who asks for their numbers their numbers gets people in trouble.

There was actually a thread on here a couple months back about a person who was pulled into GM Gaol and given a temp ban for posting numbers in chat to a player who explicitly asked how they were doing. There was no harassment involved, yet someone still reported them because “omg parser bad”.

Yes, because they have to as it is a rule. However, due to the extreme length they go to discredit proof of this rule when people for example point out that streamers uses parses makes me inclined to believe that the rule is there to prevent harassment primarily.

[Goji1639]

You seem rather angry, a touch arrogant, and a bit rude. Just how you come across via text (across the entirety of the thread). I think this may be impacting your experience.

As far as anecdotes go, I've never once seen someone harassed about their numbers, in any content in the time I've played the game. Which has been since the latter third of the Heavensward patch cycle.

TLDR: Give it some more time before spreading hate against a broad group of people.

Honestly, I was angry when I made this thread. I like how we've moved towards all of this being my fault, but, like I said in the OP, I can't really chat in dungeons, so it's not me creating drama. I just watch and or endure it. I guess since I can't really vent in chat I ended up doing it here, lol.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Honestly, I was angry when I made this thread. I like how we've moved towards all of this being my fault, but, like I said in the OP, I can't really chat in dungeons, so it's not me creating drama. I just watch and or endure it. I guess since I can't really vent in chat I ended up doing it here, lol.

Go to staples, buy the $10 usb keyboard. Plug into ps4. Now you can chat.

[Goji1639]

Go to staples, by the $10 usb keyboard. Plug into ps4. Now you can chat.

lol, I actually am going to do that. Bestbuy, though. Still, for the purposes of this thread I couldn't chat.