If SCH got Energy Drain back, why not do the same for WHMs?

[Brandedblade]

I'm cool with a lily dump only so long as it isnt a flat dps skill. Because that's the point of Misery, to refund a portion of the dps lost by using a lily instead of dps gcd.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

I'm not for a lily dump. Afflatus skills are still DPS positive over clipping Dia if you need to move or weave. Part of the optimization there is to fit it into healing, since then it replaces a Cure 2/Medica that won't refund DPS, but there's still circumstantial benefit to using it w/o healing.

What I want instead is another set of lilies between blue and blood that upgrade other moves via an oGCD. This could allow a loose "rotation" that is DPS positive, or upgrade WHM's shield (maybe with a TBN like effect where you get a second feed to the blood lily if the entire shield is used, so it isn't a big DPS loss over the damage upgrades), or finally stick some more utility in.

Lilies should start from healing, have a mixed midstage allowing for player choice, and end with a DPS refund/capstone. If we're going really crazy, have an alt-capstone or have misery apply a buff to future healing actions.

Now WHM has a BLM-like flow, just spread out over time, it's still GCD based, and its resource mechanic isn't becoming further homogenized with SCH's aetherflow.

PS: I really like the idea of returning Divine Seal as a pre-Temperance. With YoshiP's line about "earlier skills are more fundamental to the job," I don't get why WHM of all jobs has to wait til 80 for its healing magic booster.

[DenzelVilliers]

- Fluid Aura: 160 Damage Potency + Stun ( 1 Lilly Required ).

The skill is already there, gives FA damage back, change Bind for Stun and make it a Lilly skill. That way WHM get a equivalent Energy Drain Skill ( no HP/MP regen, but stun instead ) and the same issue that SCH had until 5.05 overhealing to spent their Afterflow and build Fairy Gauge is going to be fixed, so WHM don't need to overheal most of time to build their Blood Lilly.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

- Fluid Aura: 160 Damage Potency + Stun ( 1 Lilly Required ).

Could this idea involve an interrupt instead of a stun, please? An extra stun nonbos with holy in dungeons and most trial/raid enemies can't be stunned.

[DenzelVilliers]

Could this idea involve an interrupt instead of a stun, please?

Interrupt would be great indeed and more usefull.

[nalol]

now, interrupts are only for tanks and melee ranged.

[Hanayumi]

I agree but giving whm something like energy drain doesn't work as their lilies are passively gained and everyone would instantly burn their lilies for the added dps rather than saving for heals. Think it would have to work only when you have 3 lilies and simply burns 1 upon use, they could actually make it a passive for 1 of our current skills rather than adding a whole new one, fluid aura, glare, and such, tack on like 100-200 potency when you have 3 lilies and burns it when you use kinda thing.

[DenzelVilliers]

I agree but giving whm something like energy drain doesn't work as their lilies are passively gained and everyone would instantly burn their lilies for the added dps rather than saving for heals.

That's doesn't make sense, be automatic or manual doesn't change the concept, Afterflow has faster CD ( 60 secs for 3 stacks while Lillies are 90 secs ) and usually people doesn't burn their Afterflow only on Energy Drain to add more DPS gain because the CD is faster, it's a choice they are able to do and ED isn't locked to use when you only have 3 Stacks, you can gain more DPS by Afterflow burning but you gonna lose way more DPS by casting your heals when needed, the same apllies with Lillies.

No one who efficiently plays would burn all their Lillies without reason to do more DPS instead wait until the third one was about to be filled, always saving 2 Lillies on the gauge for Emergency Heals burning only the Third one.

[Hanayumi]

That's doesn't make sense, be automatic or manual doesn't change the concept, Afterflow has faster CD ( 60 secs for 3 stacks while Lillies are 90 secs ) and usually people doesn't burn their Afterflow only on Energy Drain to add more DPS gain because the CD is faster, it's a choice they are able to do and ED isn't locked to use when you only have 3 Stacks, you can gain more DPS by Afterflow burning but you gonna lose way more DPS by casting your heals when needed, the same apllies with Lillies.

No one who efficiently plays would burn all their Lillies without reason to do more DPS instead wait until the third one was about to be filled, always saving 2 Lillies on the gauge for Emergency Heals burning only the Third one.

The thing is you have aetherflow and dissipation as a sch to refill, whms doesnt have that luxury, also got to keep in mind of other players just because you have the sense of mind to hold onto lilies doesnt mean others will. That's why I said it would need to work when you have 3 lilies, so you get 3 lilies, proc triggers, use whm "energy drain" and burn 1 of lilies, done, simple and no more wasted lilies.

[DenzelVilliers]

The thing is you have aetherflow and dissipation as a sch to refill, whms doesnt have that luxury, also got to keep in mind of other players just because you have the sense of mind to hold onto lilies doesnt mean others will. That's why I said it would need to work when you have 3 lilies, so you get 3 lilies, proc triggers, use whm "energy drain" and burn 1 of lilies, done, simple and no more wasted lilies.

The thing is that's not why you think some people are supposely going to use their Lillies stacks for Damage only doesn't mean that we can't receive a skill for that reason, people play as they like it, if someone want to burn their Afterflow Stacks, cast Dissipation and Burn again using only Energy Drain they have that possibility and no one is asking to delete that skill because people can use it wrong.

WHM healing skills, like, Cure, Cure II, Cure III, Medica, Medica II, Tetragrammaton, Benediction, Assize, Asylum and Regen ( aka, 10 skills ) doesn't has Lillies Requirement to use AT ALL. Lillies are needed for only 2 Healing Skills, i'm pretty sure that even if someone is going to burn all their Lillies for Damage only there's ENOUGH tools, Insta and Casted to heal when needed because over 80% of their heal kit including the best skills don't need Lillies to use it, so why so worried about how people are going to spent their Lillies like if they do DPS only for Lillies they are going to be unable to heal at all as their entired kit is Lilly dependent?.

At the actual situation is Better spent all Lillies on Damage Skills than Overheal over 90% of time especially in Full Party groups, because there's no one who really need healing at the moment and you must burn your Lilly for Afflatus Misery and to not freeze your Gauge waiting for a moment that rarely happens.