SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[Baka_Neko1]

don't feed troll. he posts his own fflogs. LOL

[NekoNova]

Well I'm using the FFLogs for self-improvement now.
Since I just started playing summoners, I like to see how I'm holding up against other DPS.


I don't care what other people are doing, but I'm happy to say over the past 2 weeks I've seen my DPS increase from a measily 4.7k up to 8-9k now and 13.5k on AoE.
Probably still not enough I suppose, but my practise has been paying off, and I hope to be able to learn more about mistakes made.
So yeah, DPS Parsing can be a good thing if used sanely.

[RoyalBeef]

Because I come from the old school of gaming, the old school of MMOs. We didn't parse people's logs (aside from our own) and we didn't go to YouTube to look up guides to content (there was no YouTube back then) we figured things out on our own. It was an accomplishment to succeed and an air of mystery.

That disappears when the mechanics that were meant to stay hidden, do in fact, stay hidden.

You may think FFlogs is okay, but it is info you're not meant to natively have. It corrupts the heart of the game. It goes against the intention of the design.

Do you ever wonder why older games had relatively easier content? It wasn't due to devs not knowing how to ratchet things up, it was because the micromanaging wasn't possible by the player base. So they didn't have to tune them so high.

Parsers and such changed how the game was played and I, for one, liked how they were born. If we were meant to have parsed data, then the game would've been built with a parser. Period.

Ofc we used parses in EQ as someone else already stated. Also EQ wasn't built on scripted fights early on. It was basically "Bring as many people as you like, hit that thing with aouto attacks and pray it dies before the healers are oom." Was EQ fkn Hardcore? Yes. We're raids challenging for the single players in it? No, as long as the MT and OT knew what they were doing and you had competent healers and maybe CC for adds you were good. 10 people could have been AFK and the raid still would have been fine bc there were 30,40,50 other players with you. It was more like a giant zerg where your guild came together and had a good time, plus a slight gearcheck mainly on Tanks and Heals. You absolutely cannot compare that enviroment to having a party restriction of 8 people with enrage timers that are tuned to all of the 8 people pulling their weight.

[Igneous]

just another case of someone trying to be a victim cause his feelings got hurt

[Melichoir]

It seems the conversation has strayed from my original points into debates about privacy laws that don't apply. Please keep in mind the inherent issues I mentioned in the original and my subsequent posts!

1. FFLogs causes toxic discrimination! You can and will be removed from parties if your logs aren't good enough, and making your logs hidden doesn't fix this! This discrimination is inherent to the existence of the site itself.

2. FFLogs causes toxic gameplay! People play greedily to boost their personal numbers at the risk of their teammates. Primary example being healers who do not heal and dancers padding their friends. These numbers and rankings do not matter, and only serve to boost egos while compromising team efficiency.

3. FFLogs profits with copyrighted material! The website features assets and images directly ripped from Square Enix property, and uses ads to profit from website traffic. This is the liability Square Enix must take advantage of in order to combat points #1 and #2.

1) Discrimination can occur beyond just fflogs. Lodestone could also cause the same issue simply by people viewing your gear on Lodestone, or what classes you have maxed. Just because a small minority abuse the tool for nefarious means doesnt mean the tool is inherently bad. This would be like saying we should ban hammers because a few people bludgeoned other people with hammers. Lastly, discrimination isnt inherently a bad thing (even though it is associated with being as such socialy now a days). People discriminate quite a bit and I dont mean it by simple identity issues. You discriminate who you spend time with, who you consider friends, who you dislike, who you like, etc. Discriminating against people who you dont think would help you clear difficult content by using a tool that tracks performance is purely up to the player. Youre not entitled to another players time, and if they want proof that youre serious and capable in doing content, that's their decision to make and not yours. This is nothing new. In WoW, it was "Link your achieve". People will find ways to discern or discriminate between players so that they get optimal groups. Cause trust me, it's frustrating hitting enrage or when the boss energy bar fills up time and time again 'cause people dont deal enough damage to kill adds during intermissions or die a lot.

2) There is no evidence that FFLogs is the causation of toxic gameplay. At best you got correlation and even then it's dubious. Most people who use FFLogs are people youve never met and wouldnt know they use it because most people who use it dont typically use it in a fashion to put down other players. All the incidence of toxicity that we hear of are more likely to be fringe cases than the average.

3) This is a completely separate issue and is not your concern. The only reason you would even argue this point is because you are grasping for reasons to get the site shuttered. If SE deems that an issue, they will address it themselves and there is no reason for you to bring this point up as it doesnt affect you in the least.

As a side note to this, btw, fan sites or public forums also operate on the premise of using copyrighted material (screenshots are copyrighted as an example) while running ads. Saying a website uses ads while also using copyrighted material is also making the argument Reddit should shut down the FFXiV subreddit, or ffxivhousing, or gamerscape, or other online websites that operate on similar premises. From a purely business standpoint, the reason they dont address this is simply because it is more beneficial to have these sites than detrimental. They make the game more accessible to players which increases subscriber count and retention.

But I hazard, as most people are, that the OP is trolling and FoS.


I want to point out the last thing: I see a lot of people saying 'Its a bad website, its awful, etc' and I have to wonder if we're looking at the same website? The site is literally a public blog that posts statistics information posted by users. So where does that terribleness come from? Or are we arguing that data sets are inherently bad now?

[Mingqin]

Posting in a great troll thread, hi mum.

[MissPudgyPorgus]

You're right, not all players know about it.

Btw thanks ✉

[Billythepancake]

Did he manage to bump this thread up a second time. This is by far the best troll I've ever seen. I'm impressed.

[AbelArchaniEA]

This site breeds toxic communities like The Balance and elitists mindsets. It also uses job and ability symbols ripped from the game files and profits on SE copyrighted content through advertising. It's also constantly used to name and shame players. Use of the website also requires use of third party tools that break the games ToS. What's worst is that one must make an account and forcibly opt out in order to be excluded from the site.

SE, please take advantage of the site owner's legal liability and force him to immediately take down his toxic website. It is an affront to everything stood for in this great community

Congrats on worst thread of the year ! :-)

[DynnDiablos]

What am I missing here? I just searched my name on this thing and everything is blank, so I am confused by having to "opt-in to opt-out" because nothing from my character is recorded on there? Or am I missing something here? Also, I really don't care if people want to see my DMG or how I perform because their opinion on the matter means nothing to me. I play this game for FUN, not to treat content like some job and to only run with people who are elite god tier players. I mean shaming me or calling me out isn't going to phase me, I also have no issues leaving a party to run with people where I am wanted rather than unwanted.

I also see no reason to come out against people who want to treat this game as super serious, be hardcore raiders or EX/Savage runners and want to make sure they are doing it efficiently. I, of course, would love to tackle such content but would form my own party of "Misfits who Don't Normal Raid, Let's Try and Probably Die" party. XD