Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

[shao32]

Complexity comes with balance problems if not done right, it is difficult thing to have all 4 tanks being completely different but performing similar to each other.

They cannot afford anymore risk of experimenting on the design, they gave us 4 tanks with the same core and flavoured it with some different extra abilities we use in between out combos and deffensives.

At least it is balanced as it was never been before, for a company of SE size its good enough since it does not require as much resources to put into, they could do a little tweaks here and there, does not have to bother that X is doing significantly less than Y.
If you want more ambitious games, then its time to change the mmorpg, this is the sad truth, big companies are not going to risk anything.

Surprisely they archive a good balance in terms of numbers in SB despite how different DRK works to the other tanks, or how balanced we are now despite GNB PLD and WAR having different and unique flows.

You don't really have an argument there specially since there is no experimenting, DRK flows already exist since 3.0, if they can't afford basic improvements to a already existing kit as they should they can't adds new jobs at all in the first place, GNB, DNC, SAM and RDM wouldn't see the light of the day and still here they are, and GNB is nothing like WAR or PLD at all so what is the excuse now?

You know I don't see they do the same with the DPS jobs the overpopulated role in the game, are you telling me they can afford diversity with 10 jobs and keep all of them relevant and fun, see the MCH and MNK rework keeping them unique and different to his counter parts but they can't do that with DRK? Betwen 4 jobs? Despite 3 of them being pretty different of each other excep one that has been gutted BCS reasons?

There is a difference of having basic or decent complexity and have cero complexity so a 3 years old kid could play it, and reducing complexity or adds quality of live stuff doesn't mean kill the flow of the job and copy paste one of the current ones as they did bcs they didn't care about the feedback.

Don't lie yourself, they didn't destroy DRK bcs they can't balance his kit since has been balanced in the past ad current DRK is still in the same place of SB.

[Nedkel]

Surprisely they archive a good balance in terms of numbers in SB despite how different DRK works to the other tanks, or how balanced we are now despite GNB PLD and WAR having different and unique flows.

You don't really have an argument there specially since there is no experimenting, DRK flows already exist since 3.0, if they can't afford basic improvements to a already existing kit as they should they can't adds new jobs at all in the first place, GNB, DNC, SAM and RDM wouldn't see the light of the day and still here they are, and GNB is nothing like WAR or PLD at all so what is the excuse now?

You know I don't see they do the same with the DPS jobs the overpopulated role in the game, are you telling me they can afford diversity with 10 jobs and keep all of them relevant and fun, see the MCH and MNK rework keeping them unique and different to his counter parts but they can't do that with DRK? Betwen 4 jobs? Despite 3 of them being pretty different of each other excep one that has been gutted BCS reasons?

There is a difference of having basic or decent complexity and have cero complexity so a 3 years old kid could play it, and reducing complexity or adds quality of live stuff doesn't mean kill the flow of the job and copy paste one of the current ones as they did bcs they didn't care about the feedback.

Don't lie yourself, they didn't destroy DRK bcs they can't balance his kit since has been balanced in the past ad current DRK is still in the same place of SB.

Tanks were not balanced in SB, there was always the MT and OT issue, and in dungeons the differences and unbalance between tanks was gigantic
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...ps&class=Tanks
There were a ton of issues between tanks with Warrior and PLD having best single target dmg and best mitigation. At worst, DRK was doing 15% less single target damage than warrior.
The sustain between single and multi target was different between them too.

DPS jobs is a different story, because all what they have to do is to do damage and it is easier to balance than tank, which has to have some sort of sustain, have mitigation tools and damage skills and make them look and function different to each other but perform the same, this is a much harder job to do. So they decided to make tanks that way and not another.
Standard 1-2-3 combo, aoe combo, big deeps combo, range skill, dash, few deffensive CDs, Invulv skill, 1 party wide CD, thats it.

[Shurrikhan]

There were a ton of issues between tanks with Warrior and PLD having best single target dmg and best mitigation. At worst, DRK was doing 15% less single target damage than warrior.

This is flagrantly wrong. By late Stormblood, Paladin was consistently last (outside of Max parses in Final Omega), not Dark Knight. The gap between Paladin and Dark Knight was also greater than that between Warrior and Dark Knight. And even Warrior and Paladin performed within 4.5% of each other.

Dungeons had a large output spread, but that was it. Raids were pretty tightly balanced between all three tanks, with PLD still nearly as popular as Warrior at highest levels of play despite its lower output.

[shao32]

Tanks were not balanced in SB, there was always the MT and OT issue, and in dungeons the differences and unbalance between tanks was gigantic
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...ps&class=Tanks
There were a ton of issues between tanks with Warrior and PLD having best single target dmg and best mitigation. At worst, DRK was doing 15% less single target damage than warrior.
The sustain between single and multi target was different between them too.

DPS jobs is a different story, because all what they have to do is to do damage and it is easier to balance than tank, which has to have some sort of sustain, have mitigation tools and damage skills and make them look and function different to each other but perform the same, this is a much harder job to do. So they decided to make tanks that way and not another.
Standard 1-2-3 combo, aoe combo, big deeps combo, range skill, dash, few deffensive CDs, Invulv skill, 1 party wide CD, thats it.

DRK has second in dps and best personal mitigation after 4.3, DRK only suffer lack of utility compared to the other 2, the other balance issues was only holmgang and the excesive amount of utility on PLD, they personal rotations and flows have nothing to do there since all of them do they job perfectly, the who pull drama end this expansion with the rework of tank stances so even less reasons to gutted DRK.

i dissagre DPS jobs are harder to balance bcs it's not only they personal damage, it's they utility and how affect the other 7 members of a raid, balance that it's way harder to prevent meta combs being overkill compared to the several party compositions you can have in the game, mitigation? there is no problem the only problem with mitigation was when they put PLD as physical king and DRK the magic tank with still currently is more or less while WAR was universal mitigation all around and that have been solved, the self sustain is pretty balanced right now and the utility more or less too and all of this have nothing to do with the dps rotation of the job so what they do it's just pure laziness and make DRK extremly easy probably just for being the poster boy as much.

[Absimiliard]

DRK has second in dps

No. No it does not. DRK is third place in DPS if it has access to the correct party buffs. If lacking those buffs, it falls to dead last. GNB and PLD have a steady lead in the damage category.

[shao32]

No. No it does not. DRK is third place in DPS if it has access to the correct party buffs. If lacking those buffs, it falls to dead last. GNB and PLD have a steady lead in the damage category.

I was talking about SB, betwen 4.3 and the end of the expansion not now.

[Shurrikhan]

No. No it does not. DRK is third place in DPS if it has access to the correct party buffs. If lacking those buffs, it falls to dead last. GNB and PLD have a steady lead in the damage category.

She specifically labelled the period of time in discussion -- post-4.3 SB, not now. If you can't read the whole first 10 words...