Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[Taranok]

I'm completely against removing them, since they're integral to this game's lore.
So "altering" will have to do, I guess.

Lore is a poor excuse to justify keeping a class broken. The Egis can be worked in in different ways without having a pet that constantly drags the design of the class down. Having consistent lore is important. Having a class that feels good to play is more so.

I think they're fine the way they are, level-wise.
Maybe post-Lv.60 would do it.

Having a class that constantly changes its styles where a primary, CORE mechanic of it isn't even acquired until level 60 is not good design. Machinist suffered from this in SB where you couldn't even realistically use heat until 62, and got no real benefit until 64. Getting a core mechanic at 60, 70, and 80 is bad design. 80 is at least semi-justifiable because it's expanding on the mechanic, but 60 for a core class mechanic is not. (Okay, technically 58, but still). Even Black Mage suffers from this both critically (Fire 4, Umbral Hearts) and less critically (Every QoL change post 60 that should be gotten sooner).

I mean...that's more or less how Demi-Primals currently work.
They just need to further emphasize that particular aspect of them.
Like say, using their respective Enkindles immediately on entry/exit (similar to MCH's turret).

By one-shot, I mean it summons, does a single attack, and then leaves.

And this is the point where I completely disagree with you.
Each FF game has its own "take" on certain jobs and stuff.
Otherwise, Scholar wouldn't get fairies, Dark Knight would be sacrificing its HP for certain attacks (and not being a tank), etc...

Nothing about what you said has any bearing on the current summoner or its problems.

Do you want a class that is broken by design just because of lore? Do you want the class to ever live up to its hypothetical potential? Because dragging it down due to the poor design decisions of the past no longer aging well or because of story is a terrible excuse. Summoner as a class design has suffered long enough. It needs to be fixed, and fixed properly. And short of a full rework, it will never be fixed properly. It can have a unique take on the class compared to past iterations, that's fine. But it needs to be a functional, coherent class.

[HeulGDarian]

Lore is a poor excuse to justify keeping a class broken. The Egis can be worked in in different ways without having a pet that constantly drags the design of the class down. Having consistent lore is important. Having a class that feels good to play is more so.



Having a class that constantly changes its styles where a primary, CORE mechanic of it isn't even acquired until level 60 is not good design. Machinist suffered from this in SB where you couldn't even realistically use heat until 62, and got no real benefit until 64. Getting a core mechanic at 60, 70, and 80 is bad design. 80 is at least semi-justifiable because it's expanding on the mechanic, but 60 for a core class mechanic is not. (Okay, technically 58, but still). Even Black Mage suffers from this both critically (Fire 4, Umbral Hearts) and less critically (Every QoL change post 60 that should be gotten sooner).



By one-shot, I mean it summons, does a single attack, and then leaves.



Nothing about what you said has any bearing on the current summoner or its problems.

Do you want a class that is broken by design just because of lore? Do you want the class to ever live up to its hypothetical potential? Because dragging it down due to the poor design decisions of the past no longer aging well or because of story is a terrible excuse. Summoner as a class design has suffered long enough. It needs to be fixed, and fixed properly. And short of a full rework, it will never be fixed properly. It can have a unique take on the class compared to past iterations, that's fine. But it needs to be a functional, coherent class.

1) HE isn't asking to keep the job broken he is saying your i want to rework the class cause this isn't a summoner is UTTER SUBJECTIVE BULLSHIT. the pet doesn't drag the design down youre just so into your BULLSHIT that you can't see how much alike they are to a constant demi if fixed.
2) mch didn't suffer from that mch suffered cause you got punished from building the resource and from having to withhold building the resource mch wasn't a mess cause of 3.0 he was a mess cause of the 4.0 mechanic they added that couldn't be taken back.
3) a summon that does a single attack and then leaves is an egi that doesn't auto attack does an enkindle and then fcks off this isn't satisfying gameplay this is just fester with more animation.
4) Smn isn't broken by his lore . 4.1 summoner worked perfectly his dots worked bahamut felt amazing aetherflow lead up to trance was flexible and maybe the egis would have been fixed by now if you stopped griefing about the parts that were fine and are easily fixable by simple reverting the stupid change.

[HeulGDarian]

HERE LET ME WRITE IT AGAIN

No problem that occurred now existed in 4.1 smn . ITS not smn being tied to arcanist that hurt us it was the changes that occurred this time ALL we have to do is revert the changes . JUST so that once it gets back the flow it lost then we can fix the problem that is the egis . for now they made a good start by giving more of a niche to titan and making them instant and they became a bit more imaginative with garuda . hopefully we will see more on it like an ifrit gap closer but first we need bahamut to become better . suggestions have been said through out the forum so hopefully we will see something in the 5.1 .