Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[Daralii]

Next we aim for literal God from FFXIII-3

Would Viera characters get the name Bunnyvelze?

[Rannie]

Will of the planet you mentioned..

Is Zodiark really the will of the planet? I mean we have found out through Ysayle summoning Shiva and Gilgamesh "summoning" Enkidoh that the beings that come forth aren't the real deal. Hell white dragon (I cant spell his name right now nor am I even going to try) basically told Ysayle that she was just for lack of a better term creating what she thought Saint Shiva was and would have acted and was just a fake or pale imitation. That goes the same for Bahamut after his summoning by Tiamat at the instigation of said Ascians. Basically what I'm saying is how can it be the will of the planet itself when the planet didnt manifest Zodiark. Zodiark was created by men or amaurotians or whatever you want to call them and they were the ones that determined what the will of the star should be...

[Nalien]

Is Zodiark really the will of the planet?

Yes and no. I'd say it's somewhat different from the scenario with Shiva and Bahamut, simply because Shiva and Bahamut actually did exist prior to their summoned versions.

Presumably the planet had no will before. A rock has no face, but if I slap a pair of googly eyes on it? Now it does. Can certainly argue it's a fake face, but it never had one before, so... I'd say it's different from the Primals we've encountered thus far, they're attempted Recreations, Zodiark (and presumably Hydaelyn) are just straight up new Creations. Perhaps a better example would be the Internet... There was no World Wide Web prior to its invention, then suddenly there was. Can you argue it's not the World Wide Web? Certainly, but it would almost certainly be semantics about how there is no cosmic spider weaving a web around our planet.

The Ancients gave the planet a will, it is the will of the planet due to a lack of an objection, the role was vacant after all. Hydaelyn is the objection though, I imagine, and a rightly placed one... If the will of my planet kept casting Demi on the remaining population, I'd be incline to throw it away for a new one, too.

[Rannie]

They are creations yes but they are still being limited by said creator, just like the internet is limited as well, it may not seem so and its constantly being improved upon but in the end it still only does what it was designed to do by the one that it was created by. All primals are that way including Zodiark and Hydaelyn. They were created only what some people thought that the will of the planet should be but it also doesnt mean that it is what the true will of the planet is.

Right now we can only surmise that the planet itself has no sentience, and some people have hypothesized that the sound that was heard and caused a disruption in their creation magics was the planet itself crying out (like what was happening in ffvii).

Ugh being tired and wanting to sleep makes me think too much... I think I shall go to bed soon before my wanna be philosophical mind plays much more at being a philosopher and or just stop thinking about it entirely lol

[ObsidianFire]

The Ancients gave the planet a will, it is the will of the planet due to a lack of an objection, the role was vacant after all. Hydaelyn is the objection though, I imagine, and a rightly placed one... If the will of my planet kept casting Demi on the remaining population, I'd be incline to throw it away for a new one, too.

This is a great way of putting what Zoidark was doing.

The entire point of summoning Zodiark was to give the Star sentience. And the people doing that were members of a race that could create literally anything with Creation Magic and enough aether. I'm ver, leery of calling anything created that way "fake". Aether is the building block of everything in FFXIV. We've known everything physical was made out of aether for a long time now. The Return to Ivalice raid revealed that even things associated with consciousness (thought, memory, emotions) are also created with aether and can be altered with aether. We see in the Amaurot quests that the Ancients were created entire species with Creation Magic which were as real as already existing species. And they were creating everything from simple physical things to autonomous figures that specific were created not to have emotions. And the creatures created by the Ancient's Creation Magic going out of control in the Last Days were certainly real.

So do I think Zoidark and Hydalyn are the "real" Wills of the Star right now. Yeah. Until we learn more information at least.

[EdwinLi]

Speaking of Revelations...

With this expansion having FF8 themed stuff, maybe we may have the Hildibrand Season 6 for 5.X show us how Gilgamesh ended up as his FF8 self.



Of course that means we may see a dark scene where he gets his arms chopped off and a funny scene on how he got his cardboard arms (most likely a gift from Nashu and Hildibrand) to replace his arms.

It would be even neat if they had a after credit scene where we see Gilgamesh wander in the Rift then experience the FF8 moment when he grabbed Odin's Sword and we hear Squall's line after Odin was defeated by Seifer but in his point of view for the events and ends the scene the moment he enters the world of FF8.

They are creations yes but they are still being limited by said creator, just like the internet is limited as well, it may not seem so and its constantly being improved upon but in the end it still only does what it was designed to do by the one that it was created by. All primals are that way including Zodiark and Hydaelyn. They were created only what some people thought that the will of the planet should be but it also doesnt mean that it is what the true will of the planet is.

Right now we can only surmise that the planet itself has no sentience, and some people have hypothesized that the sound that was heard and caused a disruption in their creation magics was the planet itself crying out (like what was happening in ffvii).

Ugh being tired and wanting to sleep makes me think too much... I think I shall go to bed soon before my wanna be philosophical mind plays much more at being a philosopher and or just stop thinking about it entirely lol

They made it certain that Zodiark and Hydaelyn had the power to alter the very fabric of reality on the world so they both can become the Will of the Planet once created.

It is still unknown what the Original Will is but at the Final Days the Original Will was already mentioned to practically given up on living and thus the planet began to die which is why they had to create Zodiark to replace the Original Will.

Compared to the Primals we defeated in the past, Zodiark was made so powerful he required 1/3 of the entire remaining population of the Planet just to summon.

As the current Will of the Planet, Zodiark and Hydaelyn are following their nature by maintaining Life on the Planet (though they have opposite priorities with Zodiark focus is to preserve the Past and Hydaelyn focus is to preserve the Future) and preventing the Original Calamity from returning.

[Iscah]

It is still unknown what the Original Will is

It's still unknown if there is an Original Will - but more likely there isn't, at least not that the Ancients recognised prior to creating their "will of the star made manifest", which implies that there wasn't one before. Or if there was, Zodiark is intended to be its corporeal form.

[EdwinLi]

So anyone think we may fight Seifer as a Trial boss in Eden raid as a "Oracle Knight"?

or at least be a character in Hildibrand season 6 for 5.X to be the serious character (with childish dreams of being a Oracle Knight) which gives us a opportunity to recreate Gilgamesh FF8 appearance as a cutscene where Hildibrand royally fails to beat Seifer and his weapon ends up in Gilgamesh hands and he appears just like in FF8.

[Zackneifein]

Thancred looks a lot more like Seifer than Squall.

If we fight a "Oracle Knight", i see him being more close to Squall than Seifer.

[Nalien]

It's still unknown if there is an Original Will - but more likely there isn't, at least not that the Ancients recognised prior to creating their "will of the star made manifest", which implies that there wasn't one before. Or if there was, Zodiark is intended to be its corporeal form.

I'm certainly leaning towards there being none prior to Zodiark. If there was one, I'd expect greater resistance to Zodiark being created... I can see the Terminus event being retribution from the original Will of the Star for the Ancients hubris, just as much as I can see it simply being the direct result of their hubris in making something they shouldn't... If it was the result of the original Will though, it gave up rather easily... Zodiark was created and poof, problem over... You'd think if it was punishing them for the hubris of their Creation Magic, it would take even more of an issue with them creating something like Zodiark... Instead the only clash of Wills we saw was as a result of the Ancients themselves, between Zodiark and Hydaelyn, when some Ancients realized that ritualistic sacrifice on a genocidal scale probably isn't the best model to rebuild their society on...

Of course that means we may see a dark scene where he gets his arms chopped off and a funny scene on how he got his cardboard arms (most likely a gift from Nashu and Hildibrand) to replace his arms.

This is perfect, we can have a case involving First-Ilberd as the culprit.