SAM got Instant Cast Tsubame and Hagakure is back Meikyo cd reduced to 55 + Shoha!!!

[Niyuka]

Losing a positional on SAM is actually the highest DPS loss of any melee class other than trick attack

This is not just disingenous and nitpicky, but also factually wrong.

First of all, if you cant manage to hit a positional once every 25 seconds, (and your rotation allows you a certain influence on WHEN you need to hit that positional), you still are fine for everything else. MNK needs to hit a positional every 1.5 seconds, with a position switch roughly every 3-5 GCDs. NIN needs to hit a positional every 3 GCDs plus trick attack. Also keep in mind True North means you can go even longer without needing to position.

But factually, the biggest loss after TA is Bootshine losing its guaranteed crit. 1/5th of Shinten vs. crit on a 450 potency combo attack is not even close.

1/5th of Shinten is 64 potency. Crit (assuming 40% increase, though this can vary) would be 180. Since you COULD crit naturally, assuming a 20 percent natural crit chance, figuring in the opportunity cost it would still come down to 144 potency, or more than double the Kenki loss.

And that is without much control over WHEN you have to hit it, and the constant need.

My point still stands: SAM is by far the easiest melee DPS class to play, puts out 98%+ of his DPS from any given position (there, so the Kenki loss is mentioned, happy?), does not lose ressources/buff uptime to breaks in the fight, recovers quickly from a death (MNKs biggest problem, and sometimes Ninjas too) and does not need any particular other class to be present to work.

By comparison, MNKs support is slightly reliant on physical DPS being present (hurts especially since BLMs are so good), higher APM, really high need for positional play, and before these buffs the parsers in the top end showed them significantly behind SAM (it gets worse the higher you go in percentile from a quick look at fflogs).

This makes it obvious that at similar skill and gear, SAM can be expected to more consistently put out their performance than MNK unless both players are above the skill ceiling for the particular fight.

As such, I think there is just a single argument to be made for taking MNK over SAM, and that is Mantra. If you really need Mantra at some point, its an amazing piece of support. I do however posit that any fight where mantra is important is a fight not yet at a level where DPS will be comfortable to put out their maximum anyway, so the easier SAM gameplay matters again.

In a theoretical world of excellent players, MNK is a better choice than SAM. In reality, SAM is pretty much always the better choice to reduce risk.

[Hix]

So basically you refute my statement by saying I forgot 1 of your 6 rotational abilities? Which means that the 3 SAM dps abilities are still much larger losses on a per ability basis? Not to mention that it loses 64 potency only in the best case scenario. In worst case scenarios you have to rewrite a sen which is a huge dps loss. You have no clue how a sam works and you obviously don't play it since you don't know the most basic mechanics. I mained MNK on the Sigmascape tier so i'm not going to argue that sam isn't easier, but by this logic BLM should have the lowest DPS in the game followed by RDM but that's not how classes are balanced in this game because perception on party make up assumes you're picking a competent player first and foremost and your idea of balance presupposes statics are out there recruiting players that don't know how to play the game. What does it matter if I'm the best SAM in the game if i can't even get a try out because statics will just go through monks till they find a good one.

[Naryoril]

Ok, you talk about the +5 kenki every 9+ GCDs, I get it. Sorry I wasnt considering that as a positional requirement. It is a miniscule DPS boost if you move around once every 9 GCDs, that is correct. What I meant was stuff like NIN TA not even doing its primary function, or MNKs massive potency losses on every GCD if you are not in the correct spot.

But yes, technically Samurai would have to do a little sidestep every 20 seconds. Assuming a GCD of 2.4 roughly, uninterrupted, doing that sidestep nets you the 25 extra kenki every 132 seconds if my math is correct (including Iaijutsu), or lets say between 120 and 140 seconds. (you will always be in a position to hit ONE of your positionals, thats why I only calculate the other that would require you to move). Titania EX has about 7 minutes actual fight time, minus every second you need to move. So you build an entire 3, in a REALLY slow DPS group hitting the enrage maybe a 4th Shinten over the entire fight, assuming you never overflow, mismanage or step wrong, that means a total of 960 potency. Also called "less than Shoha nets you in that fight", a skill widely panned as useless.

I dont really see that as a positional playstyle. sorry. Especially since Kenki generation is also not gatekeeping any opener or general rotation issues of the more important skills.

I would presume that having the SAM stay in one position is actually more beneficial due to clarity of movement, positions and raid placement over 3 more Shintens per clear.

By that logic ninja has 1 positional (Armor Crush) every 30 seconds for 60 potency, which is less frequent and with less potency than samurai. Trick attack has no positional according to your logic.

I don't know dragoon well enough to know how often they use their only positional (according to your logic) to comment on it, but they only lose 40 potency on it.

As for the "massive" loss of monks, that's just 20 potency for each of the 3 skills, bootshine doesn't count, you are always staying behind the boss and thus bootshine has no positional, according to your logic.

[Liam_Harper]

I would presume that having the SAM stay in one position is actually more beneficial

Oh dear...

[Ryaz]

Unfortunately from what I've been seeing while doing Eden is that the new changes make Samurai feel very awkward. Tsubame lags behind Meikyo now quite a bit (why wasn't Tsubame brought down to 55 seconds as well) and the GCD after the instant cast iajutsu feels very awkward.

On the bright side, I've realize Meditate ticks faster now for its first tick and the stack is usually up after a second or so, allowing you to sneak 1 stack in between GCDs for Shoha.

[LunarEmerald]

I'm not a fan of Meikyo's cooldown being reduced. Now you can't effectively use it alongside Tsubame without stalling it somehow. I wish they'd stop changing cooldown timers. Red Mage suffers the same problem with embolden and manaification. The abilities work best when they have same cd.

[Ryulaido]

What makes me cry :

Shoha is still hell of an useless skill but it looks so amazing that im so frustrated that i cant really get to see it often enough. im so sad about this. its like they changed nothing.

the 3 new laijutsus still have the same animations from their older versions no new skill animation which is very sad

hagakure... i didnt even used it in stormblood...

im so sad...

[osutin]

What makes me cry :

Shoha is still hell of an useless skill but it looks so amazing that im so frustrated that i cant really get to see it often enough. im so sad about this. its like they changed nothing.

the 3 new laijutsus still have the same animations from their older versions no new skill animation which is very sad

hagakure... i didnt even used it in stormblood...

im so sad...

I agree that the Tsubame iaijutsus should have enhanced animations of some sort. It looks kinda silly using the same ability back-to-back; they could at least change the color of the slashes, make the hue a little more red or something.

[Ryulaido]

yep at least change the skill color animation like the skill icons if you wont change the whole animation itself .. very sad ! nobody would dislike that i think everyone would be happy. i wonder why they dont put enoughe effort into skill making since this is the most important element that makes you play new content motivated. i dont care if we get 500 new dungeons if the skills i am forced to play the new content with are old or not polished or seem like developed with less effort even though they have enough budget to put a bit more heart and creativeness into the looks. but i love this game anyway. its still very very sad making though.

[Rangar]

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

Now, yeah, these SAM changes leave me asking, "is that it?". SAM did need something like Hagakure, but only so far as it came to running dungeons, cause having sen without buffs is cancer; but make no mistake, this is not Hagakure from Stormblood. Shoha, for a level 80 ability that takes 15 seconds to reach maximum potential still makes me weep blood. And the changes to Meikyu recast throw it completely out of sync with everything else. Pretty sure the dev that suggested these changes never once played SAM in their life.