Patch 5.05 DPS balance discussion Nin+Dnc

[RoricRayner]

From reading the DPS section of 5.05 patch notes, it seems like the buffed the classes that were in the middle of the pack and did nothing to bring really strong classes down or really weak classes up.

I viewed Blm and Drg to be the 2 most over tuned of the DPS and prob needed nerfs. (after the 5.05 patch data came in it seems that melee dps rankings go MNK>DRG>SAM>>>NIN) (the 3 melees are pretty close to ea other so I dont think drg is overtuned anymore but I still think Blm is.)

Ninja, Dancer and RDM were the 3 always at the bottom of the DPS in terms of pDPS and rDPS. RDM however is a bit hard to gauge for me because I don't know how to weigh their raise spam utility so I'd probably say they are middle of the pack right now since its the start of the savage raid tier and that utility would be very helpful for prog.

Everything else I kind of considered middle of the packish with some higher and some lower.

**Everything above is judged from a numbers perspective, I'm always in favor of Quality of Life changes if it makes classes more enjoyable.
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It feels to be the state of the game is really turning away classes with super low DPS and high utility.

Dancer and Ninja are both at the bottom of personal DPS but they are also at the bottom of raid contribution as well when you add in their utility. Fflogs shows the trend of both of them being at the bottom of both pDPS and rDPS.
In the 5.05 patches Dancer got nothing and Ninja got a 50 potency buff. That's going to do little to nothing for Ninjas and Dancer is already the worst of all 3 ranged physical DPS in terms of pDPS and rDPS.
I understand that high utility classes should have lower damage to offset of their raid buffs and debuffs that they bring to the whole group but its way too low right now.

Do you think utility should be buffed or the personal DPS should be buffed instead? A mix of both? Maybe Dancer and Ninja does not need the buffs? Just wondering everyone's take on the situation.

[TcomJ]

I hate you DNCs. Because of your job, Bard players like me lost our meaning in the world.

[Laur1x]

Do you think utility should be buffed or the personal DPS should be buffed instead? A mix of both? Maybe Dancer and Ninja does not need the buffs? Just wondering everyone's take on the situation.

I think the utility needs to be nerfed, the utility tax is too heavy, and skills like TA need to go in the dumpster and never return.

Make DPS utility miniscule, make the pDPS of jobs within a couple % of each other instead of these MASSIVE gaps, and let people raid what they enjoy instead of these "do or die" meta-comps.

There will always be a "meta combination", and someone always has to be first or last in pDPS, but it needs to be made more irrelevant, the gaps narrowed. Watch NIN's get benched from casuals and midcore statics because the top 1% say TA isn't worth bringing a NIN anymore.

[Adventica6]

So tired of noobs parroting what others say to nerf drg, you have literally no idea what you are talking about. I could go into detail and rip you to shreds but I'd prefer not to.

[Neela]

smn got pranked as well... the only „buff“ they got is reducing egi summon cd... for what? For swapping egis infight to lose even more uptime/dps?... this Balance Patch is a joke...

[Niyuka]

The obsession with DPS is actually pointless without knowing enrage timers. Pretty much nobody here plays at a level where they are going for speed-clear world records. As soon as you hit the enrage, the best class is the one that can recover from mistakes, and cover for others mistakes, the best. And needs the least healing/space. And the least attention from others through buffs, and so on.

I find it to be hilariously funny how the NA crowd is always so concerned about DPS in a vacuum. This has never mattered in any MMORPG in the history of MMORPGs, as long as you got the enrage timers beat. Being alive and not needing to be fed by others is always better than pushing out a little more DPS than the others.

Not to mention, I can guarantee you, if NIN was top DPS, nobody relevant could play them reliably at that level. Parse a few fights to see what I mean, but I simply dont believe anybody here pushes out the numbers we see in those parses, not even close.

[Adventica6]

People will pick the path of least resistance, why would I struggle on Titania Ex with a crappy Ninja when I can bring a blm or drg ? you know what logic is right ?

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...t=95&class=DPS

Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to choose to play with someone who hits for less dmg than a healer !

[Neela]

„we remove cls synergy to break up savage metas!“ ...u just brought a new meta with your „balancing“... gl on 5.1 tho : /

[RoricRayner]

The obsession with DPS is actually pointless without knowing enrage timers. Pretty much nobody here plays at a level where they are going for speed-clear world records. As soon as you hit the enrage, the best class is the one that can recover from mistakes, and cover for others mistakes, the best. And needs the least healing/space. And the least attention from others through buffs, and so on.

I find it to be hilariously funny how the NA crowd is always so concerned about DPS in a vacuum. This has never mattered in any MMORPG in the history of MMORPGs, as long as you got the enrage timers beat. Being alive and not needing to be fed by others is always better than pushing out a little more DPS than the others.

Not to mention, I can guarantee you, if NIN was top DPS, nobody relevant could play them reliably at that level. Parse a few fights to see what I mean, but I simply dont believe anybody here pushes out the numbers we see in those parses, not even close.

I do okay DPS, 9.5k on titania and 9.2k on innocence so not at the speed running dps for dancers but it kinda feels bad when I do go into pug runs and see how low my damage is knowing my utility doesn't give as much damage as it should to make up for it. I just want to feel a bit more comparable in terms of rDPS. I don't mind being last in pDPS. When I am running at 90%+ and I see other classes performing worst but contributing more, its just not a good feeling I guess? If it was by a small margin it would not really bug me because it wouldn't be as noticeable but the point of this post was because I saw a major disparity between blm and drg vs nin and dnc and the fact that it wasn't really addressed by the patch notes. Personally I feel like utility should be buffed or personal damage for ninja and dancer should be buffed to be more in line with other classes. Possibly removing utility and doing what Laur1x said would work too but personally I like the idea of working together to strengthen everyone so I enjoy the utility aspect of groups and group comps. I kind of liked the idea of utility jobs being good for coordinated statics and selfish dps classes being good at more disorganized groups or pugs. That way both have a niche they can be good at. Right now it feels like high utility jobs aren't really as good at the other jobs at anything.

[Saefinn]

I'm not sure there was an issue with DNC? Sure it's at the bottom after you consider contributions, but as I understood it the margin between DNC, BRD and MCH were negligible. But I can't really comment on NIN.

I hate you DNCs. Because of your job, Bard players like me lost our meaning in the world.

Not the fault of DNC, it's the fault of SE's design. I was also against BRD losing their buffs. Why can't 2 DPS jobs have the ability to buff? Just take 2 different approaches. Absolute worst-case scenario, any abilities that overlap don't let them stack. I mean, some of DNC's abilities don't stack with each other to avoid that problem. It's how they handled the shields on AST and SCH. And also how they've handled Tactician, Troubadour and Shield Samba.