Reminder that war is still good.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

The thing is also, nascent flash is cooldown for yourself, I.E if the healer is ignoring you, you can get back 30K hp which is good, but you have to choose between that and raw int. You very rarely use intervention at all. Like if a healer dies and the other healer is out of mp so you intervention him so they have a better chance of living kind of rarely. Or you use it as an off tank for the mt but then you don't need sheltron because you aren't taking damage. You see the issue here yet? A war has to pick and choose and the pld doesn't have to think.

That's not an "issue." Decision making is more than fine if the results are good, and Nascent Flash is very good as both MT and OT.

[BarretOblivion]

Ehm... lolwut? Lowest DPS? Proves, please. Because it's bullsh*t. Especialy with how "Infuriate" and the relative skills works.
Lowest APM - is bad, agree, but in the same time it makes the job incredibly easy to play even if you never played tanks before.
Party wide buffs? Namely? Please insert your answer with particular numbers here and, pray tell, what he doesn't benefit from. More than that all he needs is in his kit: 100% crit, 2 healing abilityes (one of them also increasing the amount of healing recieved) + 1 standart tanking healing skill in the combo.
No interactions with other party members? Have you ever hear or used the "Shake it off" skill?
OT mitigation? He was NEVER the one to mitagate damage, the job was basicaly the pounds of beef with the axe, that goes trough the enemies and HEALS (by self, let me mind you) the damage it takes instead of mitigation. And with that being said he has "Raw intuition" - very short CD 20% mitigation from ALL sources, "Rampart" - standart tanking mitigation for 20% on standart CD, "Vengeance" - 30% mitigation an not so long CD that also DAMAGES everyone who hits you, "Thrill of battle" - up 20% of your health and heal for the same amount, basicaly it's 20% of your HP shield that also INCREASES the healing recieved from all sources, "Equilibrium" - fat-ass healing of 1200 potency that can be 1440 potency under "Thrill of battle" effect and last, but not least - "Shake it off" - the PARTY WIDE SHIELD, that gives all 12% of your max. HP of shield, that can reach 18% of your HP (more than the DRK party shield, let me mind you).
You still think that he's underpowered??!! HELL NO. Job's in the perfect position now as the tank, that can be easily learned by anyone with GREAT mitigation and damage.
Now THIS reply is based on numbers and not BIASed, because my favorite tank will and ever will be PLD and DRK. I find WAR to simple to interest me for long, but still he's to efective to not level him up.

You are absolutely positively ignorant, many times in this thread and most other WAR threads there are people pointing out on fflogs that not only WAR is the least played tank of all 4 by a significant margin, but also they have 0 representation on the top clears of the extreme content with only 1 of each of just normal raids. DRK when played properly out DPS WAR, GNB is the highest DPS tank with PLD right behind them. Shake it off also scales baised of of the party member's HP, not off of the WAR which means tanks will have better mitigation but DPS/healers will get much less leading to Divine Viel currently just being better for a long time. WAR isn't in a good spot.

[NyneSwordz]

That's not an "issue." Decision making is more than fine if the results are good, and Nascent Flash is very good as both MT and OT.

Nascent Flash is indeed great. Just wish it was self targettable.

[IntrovertAnt]

So, as of right now, 8:22pm pat, 7 of the fastest 11 clears on E3 Savage include a War. E4 is not included because there are literally less than 3 clears at the time of writing this post and only one on fflogs.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/29#boss=67

Apparently these world first try/clear groups don't think War is bad.

[Rakshazi]

You are absolutely positively ignorant, many times in this thread and most other WAR threads there are people pointing out on fflogs that not only WAR is the least played tank of all 4 by a significant margin, but also they have 0 representation on the top clears of the extreme content with only 1 of each of just normal raids. DRK when played properly out DPS WAR, GNB is the highest DPS tank with PLD right behind them. Shake it off also scales baised of of the party member's HP, not off of the WAR which means tanks will have better mitigation but DPS/healers will get much less leading to Divine Viel currently just being better for a long time. WAR isn't in a good spot.

It may be not the BEST but he is OK. The best is always the enemy of good. Don't make or ask to fix what is working.

So, as of right now, 8:22pm pat, 7 of the fastest 11 clears on E3 Savage include a War. E4 is not included because there are literally less than 3 clears at the time of writing this post and only one on fflogs.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/29#boss=67

Apparently these world first try/clear groups don't think War is bad.

Ehm, Barret. What did you said again?

[Izsha]

It isnt bad. Cleared 1st raid today with war/pld. Sadly the kill run i died to aoe, raised and immediately died again so my damage was bunk, but all night i was within 100 dps of my pld co tank that has done some ultimates (i havent) and had a slight ilvl lead in addition to generally being a better player than me in addition to playing the strongest tank in the game vs sad, weak, hoplessly outgunned (sarcasm) war.

Wars mitigation is good. Its damage is right in the mix with everyone else. Aoe mitigation routinely saved people. Holmgang is still beast. Onslaught is awesome for eden 1. Nascent gets lots of value with all the double tank busters and spamming it in general. Hell i did almost 10% of the raids heals.

If you think war sucks, its the player not the job.

[BarretOblivion]

It may be not the BEST but he is OK. The best is always the enemy of good. Don't make or ask to fix what is working.



Ehm, Barret. What did you said again?

Its the same arguement about DRK in Ultimate. Yeah DRK was the first one to clear it. Was it optimal? No, he just liked playing it. Same as them. That's fine. However, WAR is still currently falling behind the other tanks in what WAR has been famous for. DPS. Its DPS is the lowest and other tanks now have quality of life changes that make WAR skills inferior. Gap closer might always be up, but it costs job guage which dips into your overall DPS. Holmgang maybe up faster than all other tanks but its shorter leading to a absolute need for healers to be ready to instant heal you before it runs out. Shake it off scales off of the party members' hp and not the WAR (except themselves) leading to Divine Veil mitigating more damage. More players/groups are going to go with tanks that have just better party wide mitigation for progressing over a tank that is inferior. Its what happened to DRK in Stormblood. WAR didn't get the proper 70+ treatment that every other tank got and are behind now. They still the least played tank job... as much as it pains me to say it. It can do the job well... but its behind all but DRK (DRK has design issues).

Edit: I haven't done Eden S3 yet but its possible that Holmgang being up helps with that fight. Making just an invuln skill making a tank "good" is a shame. The whole kit should feel satisfying, not one skill.

[Deathgiver]

So, as of right now, 8:22pm pat, 7 of the fastest 11 clears on E3 Savage include a War. E4 is not included because there are literally less than 3 clears at the time of writing this post and only one on fflogs.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/29#boss=67

Apparently these world first try/clear groups don't think War is bad.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...=68&dataset=30 And this is e4s, 3 war, 36 pld, 21 drk, 16 gnb at time of writing. A sample of 1 fight isn't very good snapshot of actual usage, especially in world first race where job changes happen to optimize cds and/or dps.

[IntrovertAnt]

The point is that the first top teams didn't think War was bad enough to choose another tank day 1, where it's arguably the hardest to progress. Even if it's just one fight.

[MerlinCross]

I know I might get some flack for this but besides numbers; is it fun to play still?

I'm enjoying my run up to 80. DRK's changes have thrown off my groove to the point I dropped it, PLD still has skills are odd choices(Hmm Divine Veil yes better for the party but not for me), and Gunbreaker I need more time playing it feels kinda stiff. If the SFX ever actually gets changed back to something tolerable.

Yes it's easier to just go for the hard numbers data of how WAR measures up to the other tanks, but how it feels to play is still another thing to consider, subjective as it might be. Give me a tank that's number 1 and all things but a slog/mess to actually play and I'll avoid it.

Is WAR still as good as the other Tanks? Maybe not, but I find it fun enough to make it my main.