DPS jobs feel busier now

[Rakshazi]

They were always easy, nothing has changed, high APM doesm mean the class is good or it plays good i mean look at BLM its not a super high APM class and it plays super smoothly, look at SMN is it not kind of spammy?
Then you have classes like NIN that have high APM and a nice flow (sure abit on the clipping side of things). So having High APM doesnt mean a more difficult nor more interesting job. I would arther have nice skill "feel and flow" than a high APM. Like DRG

Well, then play the jobs that are smooth and leave for the likes of me the high APM jobs, because we ENJOYING it. Seriously the way requsts like that (about simplifying the jobs) sounds for me like if the person loves the look of a sport car with mechanic box but can't ride it, but he loves the way car looks so much that he actualy writes a petion to make the car with automatic box! NONSENSE! You either love the car and LEARN to ride it (play the job as it is) or don't touch it at all and let the people who actualy invested their time in learning the car (job) and how it controls!

[MaelleRiou]

I don't think people should get really caught up in APM. Machinist has higher APM than Summoner. Machinist feels really smooth and enjoyable to play. Summoner is a clunky mess that trips over it's own feet.

You can have a higher APM job that plays smoothly and you can have a lower APM job that feels awful.

[Rakshazi]

I don't think people should get really caught up in APM. Machinist has higher APM than Summoner. Machinist feels really smooth and enjoyable to play. Summoner is a clunky mess that trips over it's own feet.

You can have a higher APM job that plays smoothly and you can have a lower APM job that feels awful.

MCH is DEAD. The way he was and the way he is now is 2 different jobs. The MCH I loved and played since his implication to the game is DEAD, the thing you call MCH is simplyfied piece of (enter your favorite)!
But you are right about APM and smoth gameplay. it would be ideal to have job that is APM and smooth and the same time the thing is - what some calls smooth is clunky for another because they don't have either the brains to make nice and comfortable loadout or they are mutilated handicapped person.

[MaelleRiou]

MCH is DEAD. The way he was and the is now is 2 different jobs. The MCH I loved and played since his implication to the game is DEAD.

Heavensward MCH and Stormblood MCH were 2 completely different things as well. So I'm not really sure what your point is, but Shadowbringers MCH is so much better than Stormblood MCH.

[reyre]

Well, then play the jobs that are smooth and leave for the likes of me the high APM jobs, because we ENJOYING it. Seriously the way requsts like that (about simplifying the jobs) sounds for me like if the person loves the look of a sport car with mechanic box but can't ride it, but he loves the way car looks so much that he actualy writes a petion to make the car with automatic box! NONSENSE! You either love the car and LEARN to ride it (play the job as it is) or don't touch it at all and let the people who actualy invested their time in learning the car (job) and how it controls!

Hmm and? i never said that having high APM was bad, it seems that you dont understand what my point is. Also your metaphor is asinine and completly absurd, if they change jobs to have lower APM " You either love the car and LEARN to ride it (play the job as it is) or don't touch it at all and let the people who actualy invested their time in learning the car (job) and how it controls!" See? same argument. As you said Nonsense.

Either way mocking your example is not the point.

[IBLazORI]

I'll have to disagree with Machinist feels smooth and enjoyable to play. I may be part of a minority.
I feel they just slapped the "Spam this skill nonstop once you press this button" move, similar to dark and war.
In my opinion, i feel MCH's rotation is just 95% Heat blast > ricochet > heat blast > guass round > heat blast etc.. Thats not that enjoyable.
I don't feel like i use the 1-2-3 combo very much, since I feel like i always have 50+ gauge during the fight

[reyre]

MCH is DEAD. The way he was and the way he is now is 2 different jobs. The MCH I loved and played since his implication to the game is DEAD, the thing you call MCH is simplyfied piece of (enter your favorite)!
But you are right about APM and smoth gameplay. it would be ideal to have job that is APM and smooth and the same time the thing is - what some calls smooth is clunky for another because they don't have either the brains to make nice and comfortable loadout or they are mutilated handicapped person.

So you dont have the brain cells, because you think the jobs in this game are fine as they are? or are you a mutilated handicaped person hence you think this game has high APM, and therefore implies good gameplay?

[Rakshazi]

So you dont have the brain cells, because you think the jobs in this game are fine as they are? or are you a mutilated handicaped person hence you think this game has high APM, and therefore implies good gameplay?

You either troll or actualy dumb if you can't read exactly what I've said and understand it. Ok. I will SIMPLIFY it for you, as you like.
- the jobs are not fine and they always have a room to enhance them. ENHANCE, make it better, not simple. The MCH and the DRK are the great example of simplifying dumbness. Those 2 jobs are braindead now. Completely and utterly. I loved the old DRK and I ENJOYED the MCH before, even if I had to use a lot more CDs and skills (R.I.P. DA and Reload) to achieve the same amount of DPS other did, but I LOVED every second of it. I loved the certain skill level to actualy play this job good. Now? It's braidead linear job. Just as you like.
- This game doesn't have to high of APM but certain jobs require a lot more actions to do something, that other job can in 1 button (WHM vs SCH is a good example, and I love SCH's style a lot more) and people like me enjoy those jobs. We like to press 3-4 buttons instead of 1, we love that some jobs are locked for those who can't play them while we can because we INVESTED OUR TIME IN LEARNING. But you need to ruin that, you need to make that all jobs are braindead and BORING. Efficient, maybe, but BORING.
- APM and the good gameplay are 2 different things. You can have a lot of APM but your gameplay will be dull and vice-versa, BUT! The same MCH and DRK were actualy FUN and APM requiring jobs. Not any more. Now they don't have either fun or APM.
So concluding all that - if you enjoy the braindead gameplay - go on, ask for the "simple dps", ask to remove skills and spells from your loadout. But if SE will actualy do that - many people will quit the game because it will be too boring, considering that we already have a relatively slow and more than simple battle system.

[Drayos]

A problem is a problem, doesn't matter whether too simplistic or too tedious. "WoW" is such a cop out. At that point I might as well just say hey WoW has mounts, let's get rid of mounts. We don't want it to become WoW.

Imho it’s not the same comparison.

Pruning is bad for a game, and not every job should be pruned, I feel the game should cater to both audiences and it does that very well and that’s enough.

RDM, SAM, Dancer, BLM, bard, monk, Dragoon, MCH are all streamlined pretty well. And have very few abilities.

The game having 2 choices of higher complexity and more buttons isn’t a bad thing. And this is where WoW fecked up. It changed its last remaining larger classes to small ones which peeved a entire audience of the game off.

It’s not a case of “WoW has this so we should avoid it” it’s a “this is killing a top level mmorpg maybe we shouldn’t repeat a mistake”

[Drayos]

You either troll or actualy dumb if you can't read exactly what I've said and understand it. Ok. I will SIMPLIFY it for you, as you like.
- the jobs are not fine and they always have a room to enhance them. ENHANCE, make it better, not simple. The MCH and the DRK are the great example of simplifying dumbness. Those 2 jobs are braindead now. Completely and utterly. I loved the old DRK and I ENJOYED the MCH before, even if I had to use a lot more CDs and skills (R.I.P. DA and Reload) to achieve the same amount of DPS other did, but I LOVED every second of it. I loved the certain skill level to actualy play this job good. Now? It's braidead linear job. Just as you like.
- This game doesn't have to high of APM but certain jobs require a lot more actions to do something, that other job can in 1 button (WHM vs SCH is a good example, and I love SCH's style a lot more) and people like me enjoy those jobs. We like to press 3-4 buttons instead of 1, we love that some jobs are locked for those who can't play them while we can because we INVESTED OUR TIME IN LEARNING. But you need to ruin that, you need to make that all jobs are braindead and BORING. Efficient, maybe, but BORING.
- APM and the good gameplay are 2 different things. You can have a lot of APM but your gameplay will be dull and vice-versa, BUT! The same MCH and DRK were actualy FUN and APM requiring jobs. Not any more. Now they don't have either fun or APM.
So concluding all that - if you enjoy the braindead gameplay - go on, ask for the "simple dps", ask to remove skills and spells from your loadout. But if SE will actualy do that - many people will quit the game because it will be too boring, considering that we already have a relatively slow and more than simple battle system.

I agree with your point but not ur examples.

Machinist is now harder to play then it was in SB, the job in SB was a static rotation every 50 seconds however was completely brain dead outside of wildfire windows. And when they proc’d you just repeat the exact same priority list through it.

Also machinist is higher apm now then SB also and Hw for that matter

Your point is accurate tho.

SE don’t need to prune every job in the game, they’ve got plenty of more streamlined choice. And tbh some of them I wish would get more depth.

I wish people would wake up, your not being invaded by masses of WoW players because WoWs amazing. We are here Because WoW pruned lmfao.

U will only drive the masses out your own game trying to inflict the same blight on this game.