Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Maverick_Haas]

I admit impossible is a strong word. But this isn't about what I want vs what you want. This is simple economics.

Lets say, hypothetically,
it takes 2.5 million dollars and about 1.3 years to make an expansion which appeals to 80% of active subs, and expects a retention of at least 50%.
it takes 1 million dollars and about 8 months to update the system which appeals to 10% of active subs, and expects a retention of at least 5%

Let me explain these numbers, although hypothetical, I feel these are fair based on active subs at the beginning of ShB, there was actually an increase of players although you could expect a drop of active subs after the first month, but will retain half the increase.
The additional gender of a race, frankly, doesn't appeal to as many players as an expansion. 131 likes isn't exactly what I'd call a landslide victory, even if it is the top voted on the forum. I'm sure if there was a dislike button, you'd see way more data. So I'm pretty sure that around 10% of active subs even care about the extra gender, and I feel I'm being generous with that. On top of that, more or less half of those active subs will even keep the male viera, and would be incredibly unlikely to retain a players active sub.

Sure, the expansion still cost more per month to produce, but once you add in sub retention value to the people who care about it, it would be capital suicide to spend money on changing the system that less than 10% of active subs would use.

Although I submit this as hypothetical, I believe you'll find that if given a choice between new content with an expansion vs. Male viera. The overwhelming majority will vote for the expansion. Basically, the money put into a feature or content should have some value greater than what you put in. Otherwise you're just throwing money away.

[Senn]

131 likes isn't exactly what I'd call a landslide victory, even if it is the top voted on the forum. I'm sure if there was a dislike button, you'd see way more data. So I'm pretty sure that around 10% of active subs even care about the extra gender, and I feel I'm being generous with that.

I thought this post was relevant and interesting, so I'll post it here. The numbers are a little dated now.

So I'm genuinely into numbers at the moment.

Facts:
This thread has the support of a unique individuals* : 1577.
The current active population*** : 583 966.
Thread started : 3-22-2019
This thread has gained the highest amount of likes in all of General Discussion and within the shortest amount of time ever and is now considered one of the top 20 threads in General Discussion.


Sample size calculation:
Margin of Error : 5%
Confidence Level : 95% / Z Score : 1.96
Population Size : 583 966
Deviation : .5
This means that a sample size of only 384 is needed in order to prove demand which has been met within the forums and therefore extends to the greater FFXIV population as a whole. If we wanted to take into consideration of only the forum population (which we will for the time being say the forum consists of only .5%- 1% of the active playerbase, the sample size is considered to be ~330-360).

Poll :
Total Polled : 4763**
Generally against genderlock : 57.62%
Against genderlocked Viera : 54.20 %
Against genderlocked Hrothgar : 56.07%
I am not sure if this poll has been filtered to account for unique submission. Therefore, poll cannot be accounted for unique submissions, but can in someways help see from within and outside of the forums that if a random group of people are polled, there exists demand to unlock the genders. Take into consideration a hefty margin of error of +/- ~7% in all categories ranging from in favor to strongly opposed to account for duplicates from any category.


Someone before mentioned sample size and it's been lingering in my head for some time and thus impelled me to this.
I am not a maths person. Therefore, if a maths person does find a need to correct me please do by all means and with haste !

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* unique individuals means that there can only be 1 like per 1 individual person, cannot be multiple likes from 1 individual.

** the values are fact at this current post's time.

*** active population signifies per the census website 'characters that have claimed the "dress-up raubahn" mount from the 4.1 story - hence we can assume that the real active population is somewhat less than 583 000 as this is not a unique number (an individual can have alts who have obtained this)

Thanks for the explanations. So I'm asking because I'm a bit confused but, since people can't dislike posts, how would 1577 likes be an accurate sample size?
Even though I linked the poll in my first post, I'm not counting that since people could take the survey multiple times.

Forum posters are only a very small fraction of the community, which the active playerbase is somewhere over 580,000 potentially, maybe even smaller as that figure includes potential alt characters. When taking a sample you don’t need a LARGE percentage of the potential respondents, generally a few hundred-a thousand is sampled in most major statistics depending on what they’re testing. Obviously a larger response pool would be more accurate but that’s not feasible with a population this size in most cases. So they used the data that is available and able to be worked with to determine a sample size that would be large enough to show demand , in this case 384 likes would do so. Think of it this way, in any poll you read about, the average sample size is anywhere from 500-1000 and that’s usually accounting for TENS of MILLIONS of people, far more than the community. Statistics allow you to take a smaller sample size and compare it to a larger pool and that’s where the margin of error, deviation and confidence level come into play to say that while it can’t be 100% accurate with this size this is what it’s believed to be with X confidence and could be + or - X%.

When you're talking about sample sizes, aren't those normally done by picking people at random, and not people who all agree on something? The 1577 likes don't take into account the people who don't want male viera. This isn't a random sample size, so would using this still be accurate?
I'm not trying to play devil's advocate or anything, I just want to understand.

It is picking at random since you are not controlling who is liking the thread OP. In this case Virus figured the number of individuals that would need to like (aka show support) to show that there is an overall demand since you cannot tell if the non-likers are in agreement or disagreement or ambivalent. That’s why the number is only 384 needing to like in order to show demand instead of simply saying the 1577 itself shows demand. Essentially on the OP there only needed to be 384 likes, with a + or - 5% margin of error, in order to statistically show there is a demand within the overall community. 1577 like have been given, almost 5x’s the needed number.

That all being said, if I’m mistaking anything with this, and I am only human, Virus or anyone else better versed in statistics can feel free to correct me. this is my explanation for the data provided and I’m fairly sure that’s how it was intended based on my own knowledge on how to read it ^_^

[Cintamani]

I don't plan on playing one cause Miqo'te4lyfe but I was very disappointed with no male Viera so i wish to give my support here!

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I'm failing to understand the hopefulness around this. I'm not one to stand in the way of people voting for what they want, but didn't SE already address this as almost impossible?

IIRC, they stated that the way the system is built and how it interacts with their database it would be impossible to add the additional races else they would need to spend the time and money in order to completely rewrite systems to support this. Money that should be used for main stay content.

No, it just takes alot of time and resources to make a whole race as well as both the genders.
They have to make Models, Animations, and fit all previously made gear and items to fit the models. Its not impossible on any level, its just not as simple as others will make it sound.

[Umeikoai]

No, it just takes alot of time and resources to make a whole race as well as both the genders.
They have to make Models, Animations, and fit all previously made gear and items to fit the models. Its not impossible on any level, its just not as simple as others will make it sound.

The problem isn't the models. It's the data inputting. There's only 3 bodies for males anyways. Lalafell, Roegadyn, and Hyur. They use the game to stretch out the bones to make it into a Elezen or Au Ra looking body. The rigging is already done and modeled because it is just a hyur with added parts. But it is tedious to put in those values for each item and to make it usable with that race.

[Theodric]

It's the animations that will be the biggest obstacle. It isn't just emotes, either - there's unique animations tied to many boss abilities such as those that throw a character into the air or drag them into quicksand.

[Mylionare]

Specifically didn't Yoshida mention that it would be a heavy burden on QA testers, so making sure the models look well, and work well without any glaring issues or problems. We know that races have issues with clipping but they all for the most part don't have any glaring defect that makes them unplayable or has armor clipping through during animations.

[Ramesses]

Page 900 is legit-legit happening...

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

The problem isn't the models. It's the data inputting. There's only 3 bodies for males anyways. Lalafell, Roegadyn, and Hyur. They use the game to stretch out the bones to make it into a Elezen or Au Ra looking body. The rigging is already done and modeled because it is just a hyur with added parts. But it is tedious to put in those values for each item and to make it usable with that race.

I mean...your Post basically agrees with what I said. lol

[Yana-Chan]

We will most likely get them eventually, they may or may not be working on it now but content will always be first. I remember reading something in the data about 4 new models but I’m not sure if anyone has confirmed on what they were for. Majority play the game for content, majority also play because of the character customizations. I for one couldn’t enjoy story unless I enjoyed my character. Expansions do take a lot of work and are mainly to get people resubbing, in my opinion they would be making more money off of fantasias. I know some people who went from viera to another race back to viera multiple times during this month. I’m pretty sure female vieras are the most played right now and everywhere you look you normally see a viera, even a hrothgar. I wasn’t going to change races until male viera were added but eventually cave in and went elezen so I can be a little bit closer to a male viera. I’m hoping we do get them sooner than later but my guess is we won’t for another year (when things start to slow down) but who knows SE could of gave them money and they have a separate crew working on it. It would be a dream but I rather not have my hopes shattered again. We probably won’t hear anything besides what we already heard but it would be like Christmas if we got some new information.