Have Tanks been dumbed down to much?

[Shucky]

Tanks are fine, DRK just has lackluster options when it comes to doing damage when their best options are just "hit thing hard" and "Hit everyone with a wet noodle."

They could use a stacking dot with their spenders or at least have a chance to proc dark arts.

[Vaerum]

Isn't the only worthwhile mana management DRK's have is pooling for trick attack windows and keeping 3k in the pool for a TBN if needed? That seems like the opposite of worthwhile resource management since you're doing nearly the same thing every situation. I'm only 72 and haven't experienced any raid encounters, but assuming TA windows are the big burst windows, you'd have no incentive to use MP outside those windows unless it's to avoid overcapping or for a TBN. Adding to a lack of management is the darkside mechanic, which is a mechanic in name only. They could slap a 10% potency gain on every ability, remove darkside, and there wouldn't be a change in game play at all.
I would guess depending on the encounter there will be times when dps is needed now and a TA burst window isn't going to be used, but that seems like the extent of decision making that goes on with mana management.

1. Keep 3k in the pool if a TBN may be needed in the next 30 secs.
2. Pool mana for TA windows.

[Danelo]

dumbed down, yeah. Kinda. I like the idea of mainly have a set rotation and not having the enmity combos. The only issue is that the rotations are rediculously easy and not engaging. I speak mainly from a DRK main prospective. It's a clone of WAR and ruled by the recast timer instead by personal decision making about resources. It's not fun, it's lazy design to reskin war as a DRK. The things that worked previously did so bc there was ample choice about how to gain mp and how to spend it within the kit. Now there's one - BW - and it's ruled by the timer. Now it's a budget war with def ability tied to mp but few abilities to bring you back to utilize the same resource pool for damage.

I understand from a business prospective why most jobs have been dumbed down but to clone DRK after war? You might as well have three tanks.

If SE wants to have classes accessible to the average player that have a low skill ceiling and perform well then I'm totally cool with that. At the same time there should still be classes that have a high skill ceiling and low floor and reward you for mastery and punish you severely for bad gameplay in addition to your knowledge of the fight. DRK, if it's the pure resource tank it was originally designed as, should and would fulfill that niche for the player base.

I know it's a tall order to balance the effort put into a high demanding job verses a low skill job but surely SE can figure this one out.

[eagledorf]

There are 2 categories of people in this thread:
1. People who like dpsing and they think tanks this expansion are fun.
2. People like tanking and they think tanks this expansion are not fun (they are boring, dumbed down etc.)

My only question to the 1st category of people is why do you play a tank instead of dps?

Tanking has been basically just DPS that hold hate since 3.0. They buffed threat to the point where you didn't need your tank stance and the damage you took in Alexander Savage was the same or in some cases actually lower than the damage you took in regular Binding Coil of Bahamut so mitigation didn't matter except for like the beams with a super long cast.

Really, it stems from the original failed WAR design (if anybody remembers, there was a time when WAR had virtually no mitigation because it was a "DPS/self-heal" tank) that made it useless on hard-hitting content. Square Enix fixed WAR, but in 3.0 they made DRK a magic tank and PLD a physical tank so damage on the tanks had to be made low enough to survive without a cooldown to avoid the 2.0 WAR problem again. Finally, they've "fixed" it by just making the tanks DPS with like 5 mitigation skills that are all the same and eliminating threat as a mechanic entirely.

Having said that, I do like the changes to tanks:

I do miss a lot of things that separated good tanks from bad like deciding when to use Inner Beast or Fell Cleave with Wrath/Beast Gauge, rotating the Blind with Flash with the Stun from WHM's Holy, or deciding when to use MP on The Blackest Knight. Now you just mash your DPS rotation mindlessly and pop one of your cooldowns sometimes. The support skills all the tanks have are cool, but they're no different from the ones DPS have.

I don't miss TP as a limiting resource. It made sense for DPS AoE, but not for Overpower or ranged attacks. I don't miss PLD having no AoE DPS ability. I don't miss Silence/Stun/Provoke being role skills you have to choose between. I don't miss mashing Dark Arts every few skills...I mean why was that ever a mechanic? So many things have been fixed it's hard to complain.

Something I do find frustrating is they've homogenized the rotation and mitigation for all the tanks, but they still have DRK = Magic Tank and GNB = physical tank. PLD and WAR mitigation works on everything. I swear, they're just being stubborn about admitting gimmicky "uniqueness" in mitigation was a mistake.

[Misutoraru]

There are 2 categories of people in this thread:
1. People who like dpsing and they think tanks this expansion are fun.
2. People like tanking and they think tanks this expansion are not fun (they are boring, dumbed down etc.)

My only question to the 1st category of people is why do you play a tank instead of dps?

Or may be there are third type of players who dislike the blue dps mentality since HW and feel it get worse in SB, and finally found out ShB have fully accepted the blue dps fate and start enjoying it

[Videra]

There are 2 categories of people in this thread:
1. People who like dpsing and they think tanks this expansion are fun.
2. People like tanking and they think tanks this expansion are not fun (they are boring, dumbed down etc.)

My only question to the 1st category of people is why do you play a tank instead of dps?

This is one hell of strawman argument. The majority of people don't fit into either of these categories. I enjoy tanking and hate playing DPS classes, and I find tanks in this expansion satisfactory. Nothing behind the methodology of tanking has changed since HW, SE has just removed some of the un-needed fat. I re-iterate: Aggro management was never a concern because it came down to DPS pressing the right button, and use of tank-stance dropped the further on things went.

[IBLazORI]

In this thread, tanks are too dumbed down. In another thread, tanks have too many abilities and want a 1 button combo.

[DemonicNeko]

In this thread, tanks are too dumbed down. In another thread, tanks have too many abilities and want a 1 button combo.

Well for people that think having more then one button to push is clearly playing the wrong game. That why a lot of people left World of Warcraft. Sadly I feel FF14 is taking the wrong idea's from WoW.

Or may be there are third type of players who dislike the blue dps mentality since HW and feel it get worse in SB, and finally found out ShB have fully accepted the blue dps fate and start enjoying it

That would be me. I mean it would be nice if Paladin, Warrior and Dark Knight did not play so similar to each other.

With all their tools they have. They had to give both Paladin and DRK Warrior beast gauge. I could go into a go rant on why the three older tanks play the same.